Off-Duty Blanchard cop pulls gun after traffic accident

[Corey]

Pd147 also welcome to the sight.
My understanding was Shaw ran into the truck. If Richardson looked intimidating & threatening by all means arm yourself I had no problem with Shaw reactions at that point. If you hit someone and they want to see your insurance verification that is a reasonable request in my opinion. Comments such as "Your not seeing nothing" and "I advice you to back off". That would definitely enrage me.

He may not have an obligation to provide insurance verification but Richardson did not ask to be in a traffic accident, nor did Richardson wake up and say I hope someone will run into me and refuse to show me proof of insurance.

My point is if you cause an accident apologize one time or don't but show verification of insurance, then get in your vehicle, or do whatever you want while you wait for the police.

that was just my opinion of a small clip of the video

I would also like to extend an offer for you and Shaw to come out and shoot a match with us. Life is to short to miss out on 3-gun and USPSA.

 

[PD147]

First off welcome to the forum. You and Mr. Shaw should come shoot with us sometime.

We appreciate your clearing things up. Unfortunately it's the news stations job to spin, I mean report things the way they seem the most exciting or should I say shocking. Then they never follow up with the outcome. It's why we are all fighting to keep our 2nd amendment safe right now.

Can you give us any information on the fallout of the situation?

There is really no fallout to report. No laws or department policies were broken.

Pd147 also welcome to the sight.
My understanding was Shaw ran into the truck. If Richardson looked intimidating & threatening by all means arm yourself I had no problem with Shaw reactions at that point. If you hit someone and they want to see your insurance verification that is a reasonable request in my opinion. Comments such as "Your not seeing nothing" and "I advice you to back off". That would definitely enrage me.

He may not have an obligation to provide insurance verification but Richardson did not ask to be in a traffic accident, nor did Richardson wake up and say I hope someone will run into me and refuse to show me proof of insurance.

My point is if you cause an accident apologize one time or don't but show verification of insurance, then get in your vehicle, or do whatever you want while you wait for the police.

that was just my opinion of a small clip of the video

I would also like to extend an offer for you and Shaw to come out and shoot a match with us. Life is to short to miss out on 3-gun and USPSA.

I really don't know who was at fault for the traffic accident, nor do I care. Nobody was hurt and that is what insurance is for. Also it is never reccomended that you apologize after any kind of accident, because it can open the door that you are accepting liability for whatever happened. Shaw was still in his vehicle when Mr. Richardson confronted him through his window, after several requests for him to back off went unanswered, Shaw did grab his gun and put his car in gear to move foward so that he could get out of the car and be able to defend himself.

I actually do shoot 3-gun, USPSA, and IDPA on a regular basis. Recently I have got into SASS as well

 

[Jonathan Waits]

Pd147 also welcome to the sight.
My understanding was Shaw ran into the truck. If Richardson looked intimidating & threatening by all means arm yourself I had no problem with Shaw reactions at that point. If you hit someone and they want to see your insurance verification that is a reasonable request in my opinion. Comments such as "Your not seeing nothing" and "I advice you to back off". That would definitely enrage me.

He may not have an obligation to provide insurance verification but Richardson did not ask to be in a traffic accident, nor did Richardson wake up and say I hope someone will run into me and refuse to show me proof of insurance.

My point is if you cause an accident apologize one time or don't but show verification of insurance, then get in your vehicle, or do whatever you want while you wait for the police.

that was just my opinion of a small clip of the video

I would also like to extend an offer for you and Shaw to come out and shoot a match with us. Life is to short to miss out on 3-gun and USPSA.

I don't think "show me your insurance" falls under imminent danger.

This may not be "unreasonable" but its the way the guy asked as far as I can tell. If he had come off more friendly, say "hey man, mind if we exchange insurance info?" and then was told to f off, then he should have just waited for the other cops to show. However since he went off the ball and demanded something from the other party, whether he was not at fault or not, it can come off as threatening, I don't know, both are probably hot heads and that is probably what led to the wreck in the first place, but I don't think the cop really did anything all that wrong, could he have made a better choice, sure, but the proper response to "I advise you to back off" is not to challenge that again, if the other party just wants to keep his mouth shut and wait untill police arrive, then richardson didn't need to go all jersey shore on him, should have just said "ok, well we have your license plate number, so don't go anywhere untill the cops get here, we will be in our car waiting." rather than "what you gonna do about it bra? Come at me!"

*Edit*
Watched the news vid just now, I agree with Richardson, Shaw should probably not be carrying a gun, but only because he swept himself like five times and obviously needs to take a defensive pistol course where shooting from a vehicle is part of the course.

 

[PD147]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kngc2etaSsw

Here is a longer version of the video

 

[jtischauser]

After watching 2 minutes its pretty clear that neither one of these guys handled the situation well. I'm not a cop or a judge but my interpretation of brandishing a gun was crossed without evidence of serious risk of bodily harm or death.

 

[Deathtrap]

After watching 2 minutes its pretty clear that neither one of these guys handled the situation well. I'm not a cop or a judge but my interpretation of brandishing a gun was crossed without evidence of serious risk of bodily harm or death.

I agree. The guy with the camera was acting like a total jackass while trying to get the mustang drivers insurance info. However the mustang driver is a trained police officer and escalated the situation every chance he got up to the point of pulling a glock out in the middle of OU's campus because that was a better option than showing his insurance verification!

 

[PD147]

After watching 2 minutes its pretty clear that neither one of these guys handled the situation well. I'm not a cop or a judge but my interpretation of brandishing a gun was crossed without evidence of serious risk of bodily harm or death.

I am a Police Officer.

I am not saying that it couldn't have been handled better, but no laws were broken. I will say that Shaw can be a "hothead" at times, there are other reasons that I can't discuss that led him to grabbing his gun. But it was not just to flash it at the guy to scare him, you can see in the video that he is wearing gym shorts which pretty much takes out the ability to carry a gun on your person. Once out of the car the gun stayed down at his side until Norman PD arrived.

 

[Deathtrap]

I am a Police Officer.

I am not saying that it couldn't have been handled better, but no laws were broken. I will say that Shaw can be a "hothead" at times, there are other reasons that I can't discuss that led him to grabbing his gun. But it was not just to flash it at the guy to scare him, you can see in the video that he is wearing gym shorts which pretty much takes out the ability to carry a gun on your person. Once out of the car the gun stayed down at his side until Norman PD arrived.

Let me get this straight..... If I cause a car accident when the victim asks me for my insurance verification I can tell him to **** off, pull a gun on him, and drive away without breaking any laws? Or is this only allowed if I'm a police officer?

 

[Rustyzx9]

I'm not an officer and have a question about this incident based on my first thought at seeing the short video...

Apparently the officer didn't break any laws and I'm good with that. Given the fact that the officer did not idnetify himself as such, what would be the legal outcome if the other guy would've pulled a gun and shot the officer who produced his weapon first? My point being that if this were just two guys involved in a minor accident and one pulls a gun it seems to me that the other would be obligated to defend himself, this was my first thought anyway.

 

[Spiff]

I'm not an officer and have a question about this incident based on my first thought at seeing the short video...

Apparently the officer didn't break any laws and I'm good with that. Given the fact that the officer did not idnetify himself as such, what would be the legal outcome if the other guy would've pulled a gun and shot the officer who produced his weapon first? My point being that if this were just two guys involved in a minor accident and one pulls a gun it seems to me that the other would be obligated to defend himself, this was my first thought anyway.

Yeah. I expect that i wouldn't be such an asshat, but producing a gun after you run into me is going to make the situation a lot more complicated.

 

[PD147]

I'm not an officer and have a question about this incident based on my first thought at seeing the short video...

Apparently the officer didn't break any laws and I'm good with that. Given the fact that the officer did not idnetify himself as such, what would be the legal outcome if the other guy would've pulled a gun and shot the officer who produced his weapon first? My point being that if this were just two guys involved in a minor accident and one pulls a gun it seems to me that the other would be obligated to defend himself, this was my first thought anyway.

If the other guy would have pulled a gun and shot him, he would be justified in doing it. He did tell the man he was a police officer, but not being in uniform it does not have much meaning as anyone can tell someone they are a LEO.

 

[PD147]

Let me get this straight..... If I cause a car accident when the victim asks me for my insurance verification I can tell him to **** off, pull a gun on him, and drive away without breaking any laws? Or is this only allowed if I'm a police officer?

You are not required to give another driver your insurance information if law enforcement have been requested to the accident scene.

 

[Rustyzx9]

If the other guy would have pulled a gun and shot him, he would be justified in doing it. He did tell the man he was a police officer, but not being in uniform it does not have much meaning as anyone can tell someone they are a LEO.

The officer didn't identify himself until after he grabbed the gun. I'm pointing this out aas something that anyone who carries a gun should think about. This kind of thing is a tense moment and I think the officer reacted poorly and possibly, unitentionally escallated the situation.

 

[jtischauser]

I agree guys if the beat head in the street would have been most guys on this forum there may very well have been a standoff at the ok coral in the middle of that street.

 

[Spiff]

You are not required to give another driver your insurance information if law enforcement have been requested to the accident scene.

Yes, but had I pulled a gun and acted like a douchebag, you lot would have likely taken me to the nearest taxpayer funded holding facility for an extended sorting-out session complete with lawyers.

 

[jtischauser]

I tell u what though I know that dude that got hit was thick in the head when he saw a gun and his only defense was saying my girlfriends got this on video. I see a gun, you're gonna see me hauling ass or pulling my gat.

 

[Scott Hearn]

I tell u what though I know that dude that got hit was thick in the head when he saw a gun and his only defense was saying my girlfriends got this on video. I see a gun, you're gonna see me hauling ass or pulling my gat.

I think that if the truth be known he was thick in the head from the get-go. I mean what's with all the attitude AND a video camera? Fishing for something? I'm betting he was copping that attitude right from the start. Could the cop have handled it better? Sure as hell, but I seriously doubt that he started it.

Rusty, if he had pulled on that cop and managed to shoot him before being shot himself I really couldn't find any fault in that. It goes back to the cop not handling it in the best manner, so it would be on him IMO. But since it never got to that I really see no fouls committed here.

 

[Rustyzx9]

Scott, I wasn't really thinking about the guy in the video but more about someone capable and reasnoably trained. I was thinking about people like the ones participating in this conversation and wanted to get us thinking about how we conduct ourselves out in the world. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility and we have to consider our actions, hopefully before we are in a situation.

 

[ChrisC]

I only saw the 4 minute video but this is what I saw and you can take it or leave it... don't care which


first and foremost they should have cleared the road way...non-injury accident

second white dude is pissed because black dude hit him. white dude starts off with "you're not going to fuc#ing talk to me like that motherfuc#er" and " let me see your fuc#ing insurance" black dude told him to back off. white dude challenged him with "what are you doing to do" also if you see the shadow it appears that white dude did lunge toward him trying to provoke the black guy into a fight. black dude readied his gun, advised him he is a police officer and told him to back off. there were some further words exchanged but the facts are what they are.


Don't forget that there is another person on white dudes side (the one taking the video) not saying i would have acted in the same situation BUT civialian or police officer being outnumbered two to one with an aggressor challenging the outnumbered party a display of force could be justified.

you don't like that answer?

remember you have the right to self defense....

ok so the question...

black dude readies his gun white dude in fear for his life pulls his out and shoots black dude... will that be justified? really good question...

I think with the video from the cell... probably not but I'm not the prosecutor...

remember that cool heads can keep a weapon carrier out of trouble.... FROM the video it appears that the black guy was cool until the white dude made him otherwise.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Scott, I wasn't really thinking about the guy in the video but more about someone capable and reasnoably trained. I was thinking about people like the ones participating in this conversation and wanted to get us thinking about how we conduct ourselves out in the world. Carrying a weapon is a big responsibility and we have to consider our actions, hopefully before we are in a situation.

100% agreed.

I'm constantly "what if'ing" when I go places and videos like this help on a couple of fronts. The legal and the defensive. I'd like to think that it helps us to never get into one of these but of all those that I've talked to that have been there, they all have one thing in common for the most part. They say that they couldn't have believed it got to that point that fast. Meaning they were largely unprepared. Folks in "our" crowd are far more "prepared" than most SDA holders in general, but I'm not sure we can ever be truly prepared. Discussing the ins and outs seem like a good thing though.