Obvious printing.

[thebrasilian]

To the Gentleman that was at FiveGuys earlier this week.

I like other people that are like minded and are taking their responsibility to protect their family. But please pay attention to your attire:

1) Wearing tactical olive drab pants does draw attention to you.
2) Woolrich does make some nice rugged short sleeve shirts. But to other people with like minded ideas...they make you stand out a little more.
3) Some kind of tactical hat is a must. But then again it raises your visibility to your mind set.
4) Quality wrap around sunglasses are a must. Totally understandable. If you have to draw...you don't have to worry about blow back.
5) A pocket knife visibly clipped to your belt is a useful tool. O.K. Kinda made some other people a little nervous.
6) Seeing two visible metal clips about 6 inches apart on your belt by your kidney...makes one say "Hmmm?"
7) But the freaking big A$$ outline under you shirt where your Woolrich shirt decided to wrap around the handle and slide and slightly pull out of your pants for a glimmer of stainless steel? Not too cool!

Please pay attention to your outfit people. It is our responsibility to make sure you don't lose your right to carry or mine for that matter.

Question to the group: Should I have said something? He was with his family.

 

[RDiver911]

Its kinda hard to say some people get bent out of shape when you let them know they messed up.

 

[Tigerstripe]

was it me?

sounds like me.

was it me?

 

[jmt2566]

was it me?

sounds like me.

was it me?

LOL!

 

[carsontech]

To the Gentleman that was at FiveGuys earlier this week.

I like other people that are like minded and are taking their responsibility to protect their family. But please pay attention to your attire:

1) Wearing tactical olive drab pants does draw attention to you.
2) Woolrich does make some nice rugged short sleeve shirts. But to other people with like minded ideas...they make you stand out a little more.
3) Some kind of tactical hat is a must. But then again it raises your visibility to your mind set.
4) Quality wrap around sunglasses are a must. Totally understandable. If you have to draw...you don't have to worry about blow back.
5) A pocket knife visibly clipped to your belt is a useful tool. O.K. Kinda made some other people a little nervous.
6) Seeing two visible metal clips about 6 inches apart on your belt by your kidney...makes one say "Hmmm?"
7) But the freaking big A$$ outline under you shirt where your Woolrich shirt decided to wrap around the handle and slide and slightly pull out of your pants for a glimmer of stainless steel? Not too cool!

Please pay attention to your outfit people. It is our responsibility to make sure you don't lose your right to carry or mine for that matter.

Question to the group: Should I have said something? He was with his family.

I don't see anything wrong with the person you described. The way someone dresses and carries is their own decision.

If you don't like the way he dresses around his gun then you probably wouldn't like the way I dress, carry magazines, or carry knives. Sometimes I openly carry my magazines depending on what I'm wearing and how I'm concealing my guns. People who don't take the responsibility to protect themselves and their family just don't have the situational awareness to see that kind of stuff, even if it's right in front of their face.

Anyway, I don't think one man's decision is another man's responsibility.

 

[bigfutz]

was it me?

sounds like me.

was it me?

Considering your affinity for tank tops, I would say stay away from the Dirty Harry style shoulder holsters.

All kidding aside, the keyword in CWP is Concealed, not Weapon. If someone can tell or even guess you are carrying, the point is lost. Now were talking open carry. CWP protects those who aren't carrying, because the potential aggressor never knows. If they can tell where the weapon is on you, they can plan their attack accordingly.

 

[Tigerstripe]

oooooo, you noticed my tank tops.

so it was me.

im NOT paronoid.

 

[John Canuck]

I wouldn't have said anything to him, but that's just me. I tend to not concern myself too much with other people unless they are impacting me. I'm not worried about losing any rights in SC, because we don't have any. As long as a permission slip is required to carry a gun at all, it's a privilege. I'll do it until we can get the folks in Columbia to give us the right back.

I doubt that anyone who doesn't carry a gun noticed. I've carried guns openly in all kinds of environments and haven't caused a riot yet. Once, I was spying on an anti-gun rally at the Virginia Capital. The lady standing beside me was cheering some nonsense a speaker was saying and I said to her "You don't like guns much do you?" She said "I hate them!" I kind of chuckled at how soiled her undies would have been had she just looked down at my hip. Visible to all were (1) 1911 cocked and locked, (2) fully loaded magazines, (1) Gerber knife clipped to my pocket. As near as I could tell by their reactions, not a single anti-gun terrorist noticed I was OC'ing a gun, magazines and a knife.

Shhh... they also didn't know I was recording them either

 

[C_Carson]

All kidding aside, the keyword in CWP is Concealed, not Weapon. If someone can tell or even guess you are carrying, the point is lost. Now were talking open carry. CWP protects those who aren't carrying, because the potential aggressor never knows. If they can tell where the weapon is on you, they can plan their attack accordingly.

Let's say you are a robber, and there are two houses side by side. They are identical, down to the chain link fence bordering the yard. The only difference is that in the front yard of the first house, is a large dog with big teeth and no chain. The second houses' yard is empty.

Which will you rob?

Now let's change it. Both houses are the same, but both yards are empty. One may have a large dog, but since you don't see it, you assume there are no dogs. Out of sight, out of mind.There is now a 50% chance your house will be robbed.
Tunnel vision also comes into play, since criminals are generally focused on their score, and not much else. If they don't see a dog, they will assume there is no dog.

Exchange "house" for "person", and "dog" for "gun", and you'll realize the deterrent factor of OC.

To me, "badly" concealing is like having a dog bowl on the front porch and a chewed up bone on the grass. I practice what I call "passive aggressive concealed carry"; if you know what to look for, you can bet money I'm armed. Since most regular folks don't even think about someone being armed, they don't notice.

 

[Tigerstripe]

not being mean to you.

if i want to rob both of you i know which one to shoot first, the one with the dog.

my son even told me, he open carries in NH, the one with the gun showing is the first target. i told him to carry concealed but he is his own man.

 

[carsontech]

the one with the gun showing is the first target.

Is that a conclusion you and your son came up with on your own through unbiased research and personal experience?

Or has the money hungry concealed weapons instructors, government, and concealed carry accessory merchants convince you with their brainwashing.. er, I mean propaganda. There is so much money being made off of people's rights by turning it into a privilege, the "establishment" will do anything to convince others that concealed carry is good and open carry is bad.

Who is doing the targeting, criminals? Or is it cops who are ignorant of the law and people who claim to be scared of guns, yet they sill accost people who carry openly?

 

[John Canuck]

Old wives tale. Cite a single case of an OC'er being shot at the outset of an armed robbery because he was on OC'er.

 

[carsontech]

Old wives tale. Cite a single case of an OC'er being shot at the outset of an armed robbery because he was on OC'er.

I believe that question is meant for Tigerstripe.

There are a few incidents I've read about where someone who opened carried was "targeted" in some way. No one was shot in any of them, though, there were a few gun grabs.

There was one incident that took place in VA where a man was carrying concealed, then his shirt came un-tucked. The man was unaware he was carrying openly, and without any sort of open carry holster. The guy didn't have any situational awareness and a was holster created for concealed carry. The gun was grabbed from his holster and he was shot because he chased after the kid who stole it. I don't believe he was shot with his own gun, it was another one. I chalk that one up as a fail in situational awareness and running after a gun toting thief... but the man was technically open carrying, he just didn't know it.

I've yet to see or read about robbery type scenario where an open carrier was shot first just because he was open carrying. Just like I've never seen anyone shot because they are wearing clothes that make them look like there concealing a gun, such as "shoot me first vests".

There is always a possibility of someone targeting an open carrier because he is carrying in plain sight, but the chances are so slim that I see the advantages of open carrying outweighs the potential risks.

 

[C_Carson]

not being mean to you.

if i want to rob both of you i know which one to shoot first, the one with the dog.

my son even told me, he open carries in NH, the one with the gun showing is the first target. i told him to carry concealed but he is his own man.

I don't think you're being mean at all. You're just expressing what you believe is true.

However, are you taking into account that criminals want to acquire the greatest amount of profit with the least amount of risk? A criminal sentence of theft gets fewer years then murder, and not every bad guy has it in them to take a life. There is also a chance that when you get into a fight, you could lose. That's a gamble many criminals are not willing to take. Shooting someone draws more attention then stealing their T.V., and they do not want their face on the news or a full blown man hunt. Unless they are a sociopath, in which case, you've got greater concerns.

My point is, criminals are not, by the very nature of what they do, brave or generally intelligent. (There are exceptions, of course, but we're discussing the norm.) They do not WANT to risk being hurt or hunted down; they want to score some stuff and go home alive to enjoy it. They have the gun to threaten, intimidate and neutralize you if you resist, but they don't all walk up to you like cold blooded killers and pop one off in your skull. They are generally nervous, scared, high on adrenaline or other substances, and suffering from severe tunnel vision.

They are cowards, not Terminators.

 

[Tigerstripe]

the one with the gun showing is the first target.

Is that a conclusion you and your son came up with on your own through unbiased research and personal experience?

Or has the money hungry concealed weapons instructors, government, and concealed carry accessory merchants convince you with their brainwashing.. er, I mean propaganda. There is so much money being made off of people's rights by turning it into a privilege, the "establishment" will do anything to convince others that concealed carry is good and open carry is bad.

Who is doing the targeting, criminals? Or is it cops who are ignorant of the law and people who claim to be scared of guns, yet they sill accost people who carry openly?

not on my own. i heard it somewhere and my son heard it somewhere and just wanted to let you know what i heard.

i did no research and my experience is SC says hide it. i carried open in AZ in the 70s.
ive had my CWP almost since SC started selling them. i knew it was a government money making scheme and a loss of a privilege. i care not who open carries. just one more thing i might have heard somewhere. a criminal hitting someone on the back of the head with a brick might think he can get a few hits of crack for that Kimber he sees a guy carrying.

 

[Tigerstripe]

Old wives tale. Cite a single case of an OC'er being shot at the outset of an armed robbery because he was on OC'er.

cant do it. its just an old wives tale.

now in tv land i heard that Bonnie and Clyde would unlawfully carry into a bank and kill the guards, well cause they had guns.

 

[Tigerstripe]

not being mean to you.

if i want to rob both of you i know which one to shoot first, the one with the dog.

my son even told me, he open carries in NH, the one with the gun showing is the first target. i told him to carry concealed but he is his own man.

I don't think you're being mean at all. You're just expressing what you believe is true.

However, are you taking into account that criminals want to acquire the greatest amount of profit with the least amount of risk? A criminal sentence of theft gets fewer years then murder, and not every bad guy has it in them to take a life. There is also a chance that when you get into a fight, you could lose. That's a gamble many criminals are not willing to take. Shooting someone draws more attention then stealing their T.V., and they do not want their face on the news or a full blown man hunt. Unless they are a sociopath, in which case, you've got greater concerns.

My point is, criminals are not, by the very nature of what they do, brave or generally intelligent. (There are exceptions, of course, but we're discussing the norm.) They do not WANT to risk being hurt or hunted down; they want to score some stuff and go home alive to enjoy it. They have the gun to threaten, intimidate and neutralize you if you resist, but they don't all walk up to you like cold blooded killers and pop one off in your skull. They are generally nervous, scared, high on adrenaline or other substances, and suffering from severe tunnel vision.

They are cowards, not Terminators.

you are right, some just want to steal something and get away. a home invader is a different kind of criminal. there are some people that have been murdered in this county and Anderson has been getting its share.

you are right, they are not very intelligent but they are dangerous. i wouldnt want to be friends with someone first to be cited as an example of someone shot first to be able to carry out the crime.

 

[Tigerstripe]

meanie cats

 

[Placid]

I think robbers are smarter, in general, than you think, scout the place out, someone OCing a gun, ...Hey lets come back some other time!!!! only thing problematic with OCing is someone walking up behind you and trying to take it, now for most of us, theyd have to be pretty freakin quick or theyd get stabbed or shot with the back up... but still way to much to risk to OC... If its concealed, propably makes you more likely to get shot in a robbery, because the guy sees no gun, comes in guns out, you pull yours, now he has got to try to shoot you... I hope all our training makes us better...

However to the original post, the halfway conceal carrying guy at Fiveguys, more power to him but I'd leave...I don't know this guy and I aint gonna ask him if hes legally carrying that gun or not!!! ... and people are crazy :/



-Placid

 

[armaborealis]

To the Gentleman that was at FiveGuys earlier this week.

Please pay attention to your outfit people. It is our responsibility to make sure you don't lose your right to carry or mine for that matter.

Realize that SC is one of a handful of states where seeing the hint of a gun gives people the vapors (Florida and Texas are just about the only other anti-open carry states in Free America; otherwise its just the states like Cali and Mass...). Are you honestly going to start hyperventilating and going into a fit if you see that possible outline under someone's shirt and don't see that Magic Good Person LEO Badge on a belt? Is it like seeing a hint of female ankle in the Victorian era?

Also realize that as someone who CCWs, you are hyper vigilant to "printing" and other gun-related paraphernalia (rigger's belts and other solid belt-ware, sunglasses, hats, 5.11 pants, untucked shirts, etc). The average citizen is absolutely oblivious. I just open carried a full size service handgun throughout two other states this week on a road trip and only three people noticed -- a gas station clerk who was cool with it, a woman at a rest stop who was more interested in saying "hello" to my leashed and friendly puppy, and a guy in a parking lot who was sitting in his car and gave me a raised eyebrow. This includes carry at highway rest stops, gas stations, food places, urban areas, etc.

Seriously, try open carrying in another state sometime (its legal in NC and GA so you don't have to go far). You'll be surprised at how few people notice. So, if they don't even notice OC, then they're certainly not going to notice "obvious" printing. Most folks just assume that if you have printing it is from a cell phone, IPad, or some of the other electronic junk that folks carry on their belts these days. Even trained or semitrained folks like cops or other CCWers may suspect, and strongly so, but most printing retains a degree of ambiguity.

In SC you can wear a shirt that says "I AM CARRYING A HANDGUN RIGHT HERE" with a big arrow pointing at your waist. There's even someone who makes such a shirt:
http://www.zazzle.com/youd_be_open_carr ... 9823899291

Question to the group: Should I have said something? He was with his family.

Feel free. Had you approached me I would have politely thanked you for your input then told you to get lost. Are you a cop? Are you charged with enforcing SC code? I didn't think so. You'd also be triggering me into condition orange because (1) you're exhibiting unusual interest in a normal daily object (my sidearm) and (2) you're within 7 yards of me. So yeah, I'll be watching your hands. Don't go all mall ninja. I will be looking for ways to de-escalate the situation and leave the area because people like you make me a bit nervous because you might do something foolish.

Now, if you wanted to talk about CCW pieces ("Hey pardner -- what are you packing today?") then I might be interested in a few minutes of friendly conversation. But if you're going to be a busy body that feels a need to mind my business for me I have little interest in your company.

Even if you believe "OMGZERS! The armed robbers will choose to attack the hardest target which is obviously armed instead of going for the soft target which is easily victimized!!!! Everyone knows open carry is a death sentence!" how does that impact you or your family? In fact, if you really believe in such a theory, wouldn't you encourage others to open carry or "obvious" carry so that they can soak up the first bullets instead of you?

THe only time I'd even consider making a comment about someone's carry choice is if what I saw was obviously unsafe. For example, Mexican carry, a cocked and locked Beretta 92 (no thumb safety like a 1911), or so on. Even then I'd probably prefer to distance myself from the situation. Some people are idiots and my comments in public are probably not going to change their opinion. If I saw someone carrying ridicolously unsafely I want to get out of range ASAP then consider a MWAG call to local law enforcement.