New Executive order signed today

[PCShogun]

The Obama administration is proposing a federal rule to stop those who would be ineligible to pass a background check from skirting the law by registering certain guns, like machine guns and short-barreled shotguns, to a corporation or trust. The new rule would require people associated with those entities, like beneficiaries and trustees, to undergo the same type of fingerprint-based background checks as individuals if they want to register those types of guns.

"It's a very artful dodge to get around people who are not capable, constitutionally or legally, of owning a weapon," Biden said.

Also, One new policy will end a government practice that lets military weapons, sold or donated by the U.S. to allies, be reimported into the U.S. by private entities, where some may end up on the streets. The White House said the U.S. has approved 250,000 of those guns to be reimported since 2005; under the new policy, only museums and a few other entities like the government will be eligible to reimport military-grade firearms.

I, for one, will feel a whole lot safer now that those M1-Garand totin thugs will no longer be able to buy their weapons.

 

[rotarymike]

I have a question. So when you buy an NFA item now with a trust, when the stamp arrives and all the paperwork is sorted, doesn't the dealer transfer the item on a 4473? So, wouldn't there be a normal background check against felons, mentally ill, etc as there is now?

 

[Tigerstripe]

the background check on my auto was done when it arrived at Bobs. im pretty sure that was before the stamp came. i could be wrong.

the problem i see is do they do a BATFE check on the people, allowed to use the gun, on the trust? i guess not because i remember now one value of the trust is you put your 1 year old grandson on it , but you can add and take off people and items, i guess i dont know enough.

i wanted to start a trust with this suppressor ill be getting and as i can add guns. even having a stamp it will take another $200 stamp to switch the gun to the trust.

what i want to know is without a trust what happens to my auto, say left to my son in a will. i know he will have to go through the BATFE check but untill then im dead so nobody owns it and nobody can posess it. if it is taken to a dealer and you are pulled over, caught with it you are in deep stuff. maybe Bob would have to come get it?

 

[11B3XCIB]

NFA items can be passed to a legal heir using a Form 5 TAX FREE. I'm sure you have to provide a death certificate but it's pretty straightforward.

Guess my thread wasn't cool enough :cry:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8203

 

[11B3XCIB]

I have a question. So when you buy an NFA item now with a trust, when the stamp arrives and all the paperwork is sorted, doesn't the dealer transfer the item on a 4473? So, wouldn't there be a normal background check against felons, mentally ill, etc as there is now?

But when the 4473 gets filled out, the background check gets run on one individual, and that one individual only, not the whole trust. Of course when you send in the paperwork for a suppressor or Class III, the trust docs go to the BATFE and when the stamp comes back it's registered to the trust. However, if you add a gun to the trust, you buy it on a 4473 individual then add it to the schedule A (which just shows trust assets). Since private sales are legal in SC and a lot of states without paperwork, the individual can buy a gun and "sell" it to the trust...and whoever else is a trustee has access to it.

Speaking of trustees, the way I understand it, is you can amend your trust to name all the trustees/beneficiaries at any time. Of course it requires their signatures (not sure if the amendment regarding a new trustee needs to get notarized or not, if it's after the initial start up). That's the reason .Gov and the BATFE don't like trusts: you can add all sorts of guns and Class III to it, and then add or amend the trust with as many trustees as you like. Common sense would dictate the BATFE would need to know who's a trustee, but there's no formal rule, law, or regulation in the U.S. Code dictating it. The ATF only gets updates as you make new purchases on the trust, so if you buy all your goodies at one time then add the whole neighborhood later....again, precisely why they're trying to change it. There's also no minimum age for a beneficiary in case of death of the grantor of the trust. If it's a minor (I've read some people making their single digit kids a beneficiary) and the grantor dies, a new trustee must be appointed until the beneficiary is of legal age and can get the items transferred.

Just a thought: I realize the key to adding trustees to a trust is...well...TRUST, but as the grantor, you should really outline specifically whom has the powers to just use the items, or if they also have the legal ability to sell them. I've ready a few horror stories where close family (siblings, etc) have "sold" expensive guns from the trust to their individual person and paying the transfer fee at an FFL to get documentation.

 

[rotarymike]

Speaking of trustees, the way I understand it, is you can amend your trust to name all the trustees/beneficiaries at any time.

True.

Of course it requires their signatures (not sure if the amendment regarding a new trustee needs to get notarized or not, if it's after the initial start up).

Yes, you must have addendums/amendments notarized.

There's also no minimum age for a beneficiary in case of death of the grantor of the trust. If it's a minor (I've read some people making their single digit kids a beneficiary) and the grantor dies, a new trustee must be appointed until the beneficiary is of legal age and can get the items transferred.

This is what I did, and of course you have to name several layers of successor trustee to take over if the primary trustee dies and the beneficiary isn't allowed to take the assets yet.

 

[Tigerstripe]

NFA items can be passed to a legal heir using a Form 5 TAX FREE. I'm sure you have to provide a death certificate but it's pretty straightforward.

Guess my thread wasn't cool enough :cry:
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8203

thank you. thats a load off. nice new information.

i didnt know that.

 

[armaborealis]

I have a question. So when you buy an NFA item now with a trust, when the stamp arrives and all the paperwork is sorted, doesn't the dealer transfer the item on a 4473? So, wouldn't there be a normal background check against felons, mentally ill, etc as there is now?

Yes.

They are concerned that you could then add a felon to the trust. The felon could then take possession of the SBR, MG, etc. Of course, that would be a crime already.

It looks like they may also require a CLEO signoff for trusts and corporations. This is a bone from the admin to anti-gun police chiefs who want their Jim Crow era "may issue" power back. I bet it drives anti-gun mayors like those in Sumter, Columbia, and Charleston bonkers that their police chiefs can't prevent us from buying SBRs or other NFA items. This looks like the sort of thing that MAIG (Bloomberg's group) would push behind the scenes.

This is a way to screw over NFA owners. It has nothing to do with crime or violence. I would be shocked if you could find half a dozen NFA items owned by a trust or corporation used in crimes.... ever. Luckily it is a proposed reg, so it hasn't gone into effect yet. Hopefully they don't bounce applications already in the system.

As for the M1 garand stuff -- it was already the administration's policy to forbid importation of surplus M1s. This just makes it official.

Write your elected officials. I am personally asking them to (A) remove the president's discretion regarding importation of this old stuff and (B) oppose any regulatory changes to NFA when NICS reauthorization comes up this fall. If the antigunners want their precious NICS system funded then we get something. At a minimum, it should be preservation of the status quo.

 

[Avtomat-Acolyte]

The only crimes committed with legal machineguns that I can recall is a police officer (that was under investigation for corruption and other felonies) murdering another police officer, and an elderly doctor murdering another elderly doctor. They both used MAC-10's.

 

[bigfutz]

It's no suprise, since NFA Trusts are marketed like this:

Why use a NFA Gun Trust?
No CLEO Signature required
No Fingerprinting
Less hassle
Only $199!

Almost screams loophole.

 

[armaborealis]

It's no suprise, since NFA Trusts are marketed like this:

Why use a NFA Gun Trust?
No CLEO Signature required
No Fingerprinting
Less hassle
Only $199!

Almost screams loophole.

Except.... It is not a problem.

Seriously... I'd love to hear of any cases where a prohibited person acquired an NFA item using a trust and commited a violent crime with it. Gang bangers are not rolling down to RotaryMike's office and getting a trust drawn up, applying to the ATF for permission on a Form 1 (12 month turnaround), paying their $200 tax stamp, registering their name and home address with the ATF, and passing a NICS check before they make a short barreled shotgun. My guess is that the number of perps using trusts to facilitate violent crime is zero.

This is 100% about the administration sticking it to gun owners however they can.

Do you think the Firearms Exchange on this forum is a "loophole?" "NO SALES TAX! NO 4473! NO NICS CHECK! LESS HASSLE! RIFLE FOR ONLY $199!"

Do you support Jim Crow era "may issue" regimes where a sheriff can arbitrarily deny someone's constitutional rights?

Exercising a right and seeking to maximize your freedom isn't a loophole.

 

[bigfutz]

I argue that is is a problem, because the general public (and a large percentage of shooters and Fudd's) and most likely the Administration as well has no concept of what a trust is. The result is a totally ineffective (to support your statements) but nonetheless damaging executive order gets passed without objection.

 

[John Canuck]

Thank god. This will put an end to the thousands of felons waiting in line at their attorneys office to create a trust so they can buy a machine gun and a suppressor to go on crime sprees just like in the movies.

edit to complete the sentence.

 

[fiundagner]

I am surprised no one is talking about the second one in that list. It means the death of the CMP, since all they have coming in now are weapons provided to overseas allies. I realize its kinda pointless, but there is a petition on whitehouse .gov to force the government to reconsider. Please consider signing. I doubt it will do any good with the current administration, but at least it gives us something else to put on record when "Big O" runs for his third term (yes i am familiar with the 22nd amendment. i stand by my statement.)



https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... s/Gw1Pc64d