Need input from the public

  • Thread starter Thread starter DurningDefenseCustoms
  • Start date Start date
Last I looked getting a Caspian frame and fitted slide was running around...$500 bucks...

Seems like the jigs, fixtures and all the other crap is costs to efficently assemble a franken-gun out of loose parts would cost a ton of money anyway... not to mention that working up a nice hot blued finish costs a lot more than spraying duracoat or something on a race gun.

If I tried to build something like that in my garage... using files and stones...I'd probably be well over 185 hours... the gun would work.... but it would be painted rattle can black or left in the white by the time I ran out of time working on it,,,LOL.

Don't sweat it... every custom guy around here is up to their elbows in work and back ordered for months. If you do work worth the money people will by your product.
 
DurningDefenseCustoms said:
Folks, looking for some input here.....

I am going to be offering a full house semi-custom 1911 pistol, and I was wondering what you "the public" would like to see out of gun.

Warranties?
Parts?
Accuracy?
Options?

price is looking like 3600.00 out the door, taxes and transfered.

let me know thanks.

Anthony Durning
Click to expand...

1st, I am simply someone who likes to shoot. No awards, No Championships, noone special, not rich, Just like to shoot. The most expensive handgun i own was about 700.00, off the shelf.
If I were going to pay 3600 for a 1911, I would expect a gun that fits my hands like my skin does, and will run/feed/eject/go bang 999,999 times out of 1,000,000 trigger pulls, and shoots 1.5-2.0 groups at 50yds from a secured rest, and will be re-tuned for life. These are the things that are important to me about any gun. Feel, Fit, Reliability, Accuracy, and the ability to keep it that way.
 
Well now we are talking about two different types of guns in the same breath. " Run full of blood and mud...built for the operator", and then when will your pistol win a bull's eye championship.......hmmmm. well I have built a fair number of single stack guns, and it really isn't that hard to build one that will hold to 1.5-2" @ 50 yards. I have never built a dedicated Bullseye pistol so I can't really comment on that, but I can comment on the fact that most any gun will run " full of blood" as long as it hasn't coagulation too much, and any fairly well fit pistol will run covered in mud.....you see there just isn't many places for it to infiltrate except the barrel which can be cleared with a few good slings. Sand however is a cat lady so if you can build one that will run in that....well now you are starting to get my attention. I think the " public" you asked answered that the price seemed too high. Note at no time did I say you wouldn't get that amount I just said it was to high in general. You very well may build the best pistol in the world, but for that money you can get a 2011 fully built with ion bond finish and 3 tuned mags that will easily hold those types of groups....not just as single stack .45.
 
The one exception to it looking classic, would be for it to have grips that have some amazing art on it. Laser ingraved design or something slick like that.
 
I'd have to think most people who are in the market for a single stack 1911 and willing to pay over $2500 are looking for some inner value beyond raw functionality.

You guys know that Wilson top of the line semi custom bases at $5100... and to tell the truth... AI, Dr Greyson or AL (plus a lot of other "regional gunsmiths" can build that much gun plus the custom touches you want for less. Mrs Wilson seems to have enough beans and bacon on the table.... and these local gun smiths should take a shot at that market. I'd never knock a guy for asking about a market.

If we did not have a few people who want to give very nice, very special, very functional, well fitted 1911's for gifts for benchmark events or simple gifts to them selfs a lot of custom gun smiths would have gotten out years ago.

An old Model 12 shotgun killed a lot of ducks.... but a Model 12 with a little inlay and checkering that spent some time on the bird feild... and got handed down means a lot more to me.

A hand fitted, Damascus slide, 1911 built well enough to shoot a good group and not puke under hard (duty or defensive) use that's a joy to handle and look at is something some people seek.

Once upon a time I built a old Dodge race car... same motor (plus some goodies) axles, etc as a vintage GTX that went for about $35 K at the time ...of course that old Satelite was fast...but in primer she sure was ugly.
 
Thanks to all for the input so far, and I do apologies as this has brought up some, well interesting responses.

while I have a few good friends that are former Wilson smiths and one current, I strive for better than super grade. what kinda sparked this Idea was a conversation I had last week, to which the argument was does match grade accuracy play a role in combat weapons. I did some research and found that, brown did not state any accuracy, Wilson super grades 25 yards 1 inch, Wilson lower grades 15 yards 1 inch. Nighthawk same as brown, les baer 3 inch at 50 on competition pistols, ask about 1.5 inch.

The thing I see in the gunsmith world is a divided line, Accuracy guys and no offense as they do produce some works of art, but they tend to focus on internals and the paper x more than line work and ergonomics.

Rodgers is anal about beaver tail fitting, to most they dont care how tight the safety is fitted, to some its a standard at which others are judged. Rogers, meticulous in every aspect of fit and finish, perfect machine work. Yost classic design, amazing line work and machinist ability, his work is so shuttle you would walk right by it and never knon the difference.

Marvel, chambers, keefer, dead eye guns, kill you at 50 all day long, initiative and always on the cutting edge.

I want to combine it all into a package that is well amazing, that is what i strive for and I want to see what people are looking at, only one way to find out ask. I ask the questions, no pride here, I keep working forward to learn and learn more, ever interaction with a different smiff makes you look a pistol different, I love that, it's like you have never seen a 1911 before every time.

I am passionate about what I do, I bleed over this stuff man. :wild:

Thanks all, and even though I did not mention the public, your input is very valuable, to those that have made, constrictive and knowledgeable input thanks its not going un-noted.
 
I sorta wonder about how good is "good enough" for a defensive pistol too. That's been the bane of the 1911 ever since people began to tighten up slides and bushings to wring a good group out of the GI pistols.

To tell the truth.. I had a old GI franken- gun that was built from bin parts and the old guy who helped me with it was a very good armorer. That gun would land 7 in a foot circle at 20 yards all day long. If fed, fired and shucked every cartridge I ever ran through it (including some of those awful hollow points from the 70's).

the only reason I would not pass that along as "good enough" is because I know we can build a Pretty, well finished, CNC enhanced pistol that will shoot 3 inchs or better at 25 or 50 yards and run every time it's called on.

I agree with Kurt ... there is a cap on "how much" you can put into a single stack... and in my opinion... any pistol that tops $5K better be a bona fide work of art and head to a museum... but the people who buy such a thing are gonna get it built anyway.
 
I'd like to see your work. Post some pics and let us know where we can see some guns.


Also, a huge percentage of us here at Boomershooter are competition shooters, primarily in USPSA and 3-Gun, where .45acp is getting more rare every day. We dont muck our guns up with mud and blood (but they do get a lot of sand) and we dont shoot bullseye either. But we do expect a .40 1911 to run all day every day and shoot 4 moa or better. Of course we'd also prefer it to be a 6" slide 2011 in .40 with 21 round tuned mags...

Anyway, show off your work!
 
Some work is up in the gunsmithing section.

Its crazy that these day 5k is top line semi-custom, anymore 5k doesn't even scratch the surface.
 
Mr. Durning,

I don't think your price point is out of line IF you can deliver all you say. What I would look for at that price point is basically the equivalent of a Wilson Supergrade. No scrimping at all on parts. Top line barrel and everything else. Checkering, undercut trigger guard, serrated rib, serrated flat top slide, I would pick my own sights and spec out the other pieces and finish. It would not be Ceracoat. Like Kurt said if you use those kind of parts and fit them properly the accuracy is going to be there, so I wouldn't hang up on a given number. But if it wouldn't hold 2.5" groups at 50 I'd really look hard at why and make a decision from there on whether the build would warrant the money. Like I said if you can deliver all this along with a no BS Dillon Precision type service after the sale, I think you'd sell some. Just understand the clientele is a bit limited at that point. Once your reputation is established you'll see your sales grow.

I know that Wilson does good work, but I think it's over priced. But on the other hand, if he can sell at that price I say more power to him and I'm glad he's done so well. An example of his success:

http://wilsoncombat.com/house/?utm_source=Wilson+Combat+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ef09e182dc-Knives_5_24_2012&utm_medium=email

And this actually does seem to be a decent price for this property. I've seen houses on Grand lake for almost this much and not even an acre...
 
if you think that is impressive you should see the ranch in Texas!
 
I would expect the general public to want 3-4 guns for that price range. I have several high use custom double stack 1911 guns that cost $500-1000 less than that.
 
As to what folks will pay for. I have a buddy and he has enough money to play with. He has over a dozen top end 1911s. Some have reliability work / job.

My Remington Rand and Singer 1911s I had with my short stay in th eCorps even ran CCI 200 JHP(flying ashtry) Were they dead nuts - nope but they were CoM (Chest of Man) at 25 yds.

Jeff is dead nuts on about tighting up the play.

AFA how much is good enough in regards to accuaracy - that is up to the shooter and what they want to do with it and the target size they will have to engage. I would rather have better sights on a gun that shot 3" groups then not on one that shot a one inch group and would rather have a five group gun that ran over a three inch group gun that had problems. For me if it doesn't run its of no use. Some like the art work. I have an old Guns Games that had some works of art in it for a charity I think it was. Never a report I saw on how the pistols ran lol. Just saying... Anyway if you are looking at art wort or the different I could scan those pages and send them to you.

Your goal is set to a very high level and I am anxious to see this play out. Either way a pretty pc or a functional pc I hope you the best in your endeavors.
 
just order a ransom rest and a barrel test fixture!
 
For 3600 I would want a very custom looking pistol with very nice grip and front and rear serrations like a SVI.
 
I dont know if that should be shot, or on the hood of a 80 model caddie.
 
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