My 7.62 X 39 rifles : (another ) accuracy comparison.

joepistol

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As some that read postings here may notice, I enjoy doing accuracy comparisons with my firearms...
I was interested in seeing which of my 7.62 X39 rifles is the most accurate. I should clarify that statement, and say which rifle I can shoot more accurately.
As always,... MY shooting a rifle may not indicate the rifle's most optimal accuracy. Though I might not shoot as well as I have in the past,
due to "advanced" age, or other excuses.. err.. explanations,... I enjoy shooting more, just because I can.
The candidates are:
1) a PSA 16" AR-15 upper, in that caliber on a Bushmaster lower, w/ a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.
2) a Bear Creek Arsenal AR-15 16" rifle in that caliber with a CMC 3.5# drop-in trigger. ( a review written & posted here earlier)
3) a Ruger Mini 30 SS Ranch rifle, also with a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.

'll admit the Ruger wasn't really in the game, as it lacks a bipod,which both the AR's have. The bipods help a lot in tightening my group size. Sandbag rests work about as well as a bipod, but I didn't bother to load mine in the truck for this outing.. Ruger groups were shot, but didn't bother saving the targets,. I should have, just for a comparison.
I do recall it's groups weren't as good as the AR's. The Ruger also has a older, lower power Weaver scope, than both the newer, higher powered Vortex scopes the AR's are wearing. I had not shot my Ruger since getting my PSA AR , then later adding the BCA, for its' side charging option. The Ruger was included only because 1) it's chambered in the same caliber, & 2) I haven't shot it since I got my Ar's..time to at least blow some dust from the barrel. I did succeed in accomplishing that.

Both AR's are favored because they have easily mounted bipods, the PSA also has a brass catcher attached, making it my go-to for most range use.
I've shot some of my tightest groups with that PSA upper/Bushmaster lower, the BCA has been too new to me to compare, until I performed this test.
Conclusion :
I actually conducted the test over 2 consecutive days, to r/o weather / too much coffee in the a.m. variables .
I discovered that I can shoot the BCA AR as accurately as my PSA..maybe a little better.
A surprise to me, as my prejudice would favor the PSA, as I've shot it more, & it's more "familiar" to me.

Wed Targets ...................... Target scale is white circle = 3/4" White square= 1"
PSA Target #1
PSA 1   2023-09-22 at 10-27-49 Scan.pdf.png5 shots
 
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joepistol

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Thurs. same Target &BCA 2    2023-09-22 at 10-29-17 Scan.pdf.png loads...17 shots fired.

I don't usually use the 3/4" circle as an aim point, too frustrating to hit all around it & not put any inside the circle.
I was running out of ammo, so shot at the circle with the BCA last, was happy with the results.

I enjoy these little comparisons I do @ my club range, & was impressed with my results.
If you haven't tried a comparison shoot -off with firearms you have, I encourage you to give it a try.
 

barnetmill

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I have decided to stay away for the AR15 in 7,62x39 since the bolt is not really up to dealing with that round. the AR bolts tend to break extractors and lugs it is said with that chambering. The CMMG gun is different but it is an AR10 bolt.
 

barnetmill

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.." the bolt is not really up to dealing with that round."" I wonder what makes you think this ?

I've fired at least 5 hundred rds thru my AR w/o any incidents at all. My upper BCG is made by PSA, so it's got a good warranty, should any problem arise.
There has been a lot of discussion of this. Many photographs of fail 7.62x39 bolts. A military should be replace like 7-10K. russian bolts break more often. It is enough that I will go to 300 blackout. compare two bolts.
1695668704591.png
Extractors are prone to break and lugs are said to shear more frequently. It could be your bolt goes 10,000 round or something breaks tomorrow.
What i have done is to add an H3 buffer to my overgassed BCA upper to slow bolt carrier speed and that should prolong extractor life. It was ejecting close to 1 o'clock and now it is at about 5 o'clock. It also feeds better from all after market magazines now.
The LMT ACB has been around for over a decade and has modified lugs that are designed not to break. I have never broken one. I run 7.62x39 in full auto in 7.5 and 8" barrels.
I need to look into the LMT bolt.

Below failed 7.62 x39 bolts

1695669166419.png
 

joepistol

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Thanks for posting this information,... I'll keep an eye out for an issue. I usually ckean my AR's more often than most & examine my bolt & associated parts closely My life may be over before I shoot 10K rds. thru my 7.62 X 39 AR. I might shoot 400-500 rds a year,( maybe less )through it. I have had issues with some of the PSA products I've purchased, but will add that the factory did make them right, after some prodding.
 

barnetmill

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The bolt problems is a design issue in that it was made for a smaller cartridge head surface. A lot of material gets cut away. It seems that some say their bolts are better relieved or something or other. The major reason for having an AR upper in 7.62x39 is that I have bit of it purchased from before the biden sanctions ban. I am waiting for someone to make an AR upper in x39 with a AR10 diameter bolt that is compatible with a standard AR lower.
 

BIGDAVE101

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INDIANA, FISHERS
As some that read postings here may notice, I enjoy doing accuracy comparisons with my firearms...
I was interested in seeing which of my 7.62 X39 rifles is the most accurate. I should clarify that statement, and say which rifle I can shoot more accurately.
As always,... MY shooting a rifle may not indicate the rifle's most optimal accuracy. Though I might not shoot as well as I have in the past,
due to "advanced" age, or other excuses.. err.. explanations,... I enjoy shooting more, just because I can.
The candidates are:
1) a PSA 16" AR-15 upper, in that caliber on a Bushmaster lower, w/ a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.
2) a Bear Creek Arsenal AR-15 16" rifle in that caliber with a CMC 3.5# drop-in trigger. ( a review written & posted here earlier)
3) a Ruger Mini 30 SS Ranch rifle, also with a trigger job by my favorite gunsmith.

'll admit the Ruger wasn't really in the game, as it lacks a bipod,which both the AR's have. The bipods help a lot in tightening my group size. Sandbag rests work about as well as a bipod, but I didn't bother to load mine in the truck for this outing.. Ruger groups were shot, but didn't bother saving the targets,. I should have, just for a comparison.
I do recall it's groups weren't as good as the AR's. The Ruger also has a older, lower power Weaver scope, than both the newer, higher powered Vortex scopes the AR's are wearing. I had not shot my Ruger since getting my PSA AR , then later adding the BCA, for its' side charging option. The Ruger was included only because 1) it's chambered in the same caliber, & 2) I haven't shot it since I got my Ar's..time to at least blow some dust from the barrel. I did succeed in accomplishing that.

Both AR's are favored because they have easily mounted bipods, the PSA also has a brass catcher attached, making it my go-to for most range use.
I've shot some of my tightest groups with that PSA upper/Bushmaster lower, the BCA has been too new to me to compare, until I performed this test.
Conclusion :
I actually conducted the test over 2 consecutive days, to r/o weather / too much coffee in the a.m. variables .
I discovered that I can shoot the BCA AR as accurately as my PSA..maybe a little better.
A surprise to me, as my prejudice would favor the PSA, as I've shot it more, & it's more "familiar" to me.

Wed Targets ...................... Target scale is white circle = 3/4" White square= 1"
PSA Target #1
View attachment 325505 shots
Why no AK47 style???
 

joepistol

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Location
Rochester Hills, Mi
Not a fan of Commie made guns..though some may have a greater degree of accuracy, most are what I'd call "bullet sprayers"...
I am curious why some would want an AK, as they're way more expensive than an AR, not as easy to modify, and then there's the accuracy thing.
I've had no interest in an AK.. or any of their clones
 

barnetmill

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Nov 16, 2022
Messages
211
Not a fan of Commie made guns..though some may have a greater degree of accuracy, most are what I'd call "bullet sprayers"...
I am curious why some would want an AK, as they're way more expensive than an AR, not as easy to modify, and then there's the accuracy thing.
I've had no interest in an AK.. or any of their clones
When I purchased my AK they were running about 250 to 350 dollars for imported guns. Now the AR-15 in 5.56 is the easy button for a lot of reasons. I still have an AK and a SKS.
First I purchased a SKS for $100 just because. I was impressed with its performance. So I finally purchased a politically correct Mak 90 AKM during the begining of the Clinton-biden '94 assault weapons bill and was impressed. Accuracy improved when I tightened the loose front sight.
 
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Mike A1

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My 7.62 X 39 mm launchers.


Luck Grunt GIF by Mass Effect


1695842762502.png
SKS D takes AK mags, Papa Bush banned it.
1695842869776.png
ROOOGER.
1695843298964.png
 

Old Bill

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Oct 20, 2018
Messages
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Rather than comment directly on AK accuracy.. I think it would be more fun to post the below article for those fellas interested to read and then reflect upon the Cultural origins of Marksmenship and how it affects design, expectations and results..

What?

What drove the AK design?
What drives the AR design?

No small part of the answer is based upon experiences.

It all started here.


Oh and for the record.. Trying to make a point to go practice marksmenship on the 4th of July one time resulted in running into some fellas that were shooting a Kentucky Long Rifle... After firing a few rounds as their guest. I almost felt sorry for the British Soldier or Officer during the American Revolution or the War of 1812 facing such a deadly accurate beast.


I wonder where this will go?



"Cult of the Dummy Cord"
 

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