More executive action on "gun violence"

[Burk Cornelius]

Never mind that the title pisses me off to no end. No one ever uses the word "baseball bat violence" or "knife violence" but I digress.

The executive actions that he is talking about this time will, once again, do nothing to stop mass shootings but the fact that he thinks it will both infuriates and and disappoints me

[from Fox News article]

"At the centerpiece of Obama's plan is a more sweeping definition of gun dealers that the administration hopes will expand the number of gun sales subject to background checks. At gun shows, websites and flea markets, sellers often skirt that requirement by declining to register as licensed dealers, but officials said new federal guidance would clarify that it applies to anyone "in the business" of selling firearms."

ATF Definition of What it means to be “engaged in the business of dealing in firearms”

Under federal law, a person engaged in the business of dealing in firearms is a person who “devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms.”

Under federal law, conducting business “with the principal objective of livelihood and profit” means that “the intent underlying the sale or disposition of firearms is predominantly one of obtaining livelihood and pecuniary gain, as opposed to other intents, such as improving or liquidating a personal firearms collection.”

Consistent with this approach, federal law explicitly exempts persons “who make occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.”

How is this going to stop a mass shooting?

URGH, I give up

 

[jtischauser]

Its not. Its going to take away our constitutional rights and that's it as always.

 

[Matt1911]

Yup. Just like making guns illegal will keep them out of criminals hands.
How's that working out for cocaine, pcp, heroin, etc etc...

 

[Burk Cornelius]

We already submit to a background check anytime we buy from a FFL, right? Expanding who should be considered an FFL is a minimal change, AT BEST. Even if the guys who are selling from their "personal collection" at a gun show suddenly become and FFL, what changes?


and..... he freaking CRIED during his speech?

 

[Burk Cornelius]

From the White House. This is a prime example of why the government [doesn't] work

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/01/04/fact-sheet-new-executive-actions-reduce-gun-violence-and-make-our

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[jtischauser]

Are there actually business online and at gun shows who are selling guns without an FFL?

I've never seen one.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Are there actually business online and at gun shows who are selling guns without an FFL?

I've never seen one.

Online: NO

Gunshow: just the guys that are selling from their "private collection". Some of them might be skirting current laws.

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[dennishoddy]

According to obama, 92% of Americans want these expanded background checks. I'd like to see the source of that information. I doubt it exists unless they only polled the people in the room with him that were invited because of their wish for more gun control.

Its going to totally backfire, because of the reporting requirements for medical. If a returning veteran suffering from PTSD, a couple looking for marriage counseling, or if your a VA or Medicare patient, your required to report if you own guns. As I understand it since last year even a visit to any emergency room will require answering some personal questions regarding gun ownership. What this will accomplish is that folks that may need some temporary mental care, will have to forfeit their guns. If you think HIPPA protects your medical information, think again. You would be wrong.

"The Department of Health and Human Services is finalizing a rule to remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information about people prohibited from possessing a gun for specific mental health reasons."

"Remove unnecessary legal barriers preventing States from reporting relevant information to the background check system. Although States generally report criminal history information to NICS, many continue to report little information about individuals who are prohibited by Federal law from possessing or receiving a gun for specific mental health reasons. Some State officials raised concerns about whether such reporting would be precluded by the Privacy Rule issued under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA). Today, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a final rule expressly permitting certain HIPAA covered entities to provide to the NICS limited demographic and other necessary information about these individuals".

Another issue is some that sell guns through internet forums in the classifieds. If you include the original packaging, selling only two guns could put you in violation of the EO and get a visit from BATF.

• Quantity and frequency of sales are relevant indicators. There is no specific threshold number of firearms purchased or sold that triggers the licensure requirement. But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present.

 

[Tech]

The mental health issue is the scariest part of this. I would bet onc the guns are taken away, you never get them back and no longer can possess or purchase.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

The mental health issue is the scariest part of this. I would bet onc the guns are taken away, you never get them back and no longer can possess or purchase.

Agreed on the mental health issue. Remember HIPPA?

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[jtischauser]

Online: NO

Gunshow: just the guys that are selling from their "private collection". Some of them might be skirting current laws.

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Guess I haven't been to a gun show in a long time. I figured the ATF was watching folks that were running a business of selling guns for a living without a license.

Heck if I wouldn't lose money on every gun I sell I guess I could be considered in business. If I was "in business" I'd be out-of-business already!

 

[Scott Hearn]

The mental health issue is the scariest part of this. I would bet onc the guns are taken away, you never get them back and no longer can possess or purchase.

This will sound a bit conspiratorial, but mark this down. It's worse than just mental health issues. They are going to take it to the point of just SUSPECTING a mental health issue. Make the wrong statement in jest to your doc? Guns are gone. Refuse to answer certain questions that your doc asks? Guns are gone. I utterly hate it, but this asshat in the WH and his minions are going to make me into a tin foiler yet. Question is can we hold out until the prick leaves office and can we replace him with someone with at least half a clue?

 

[Tech]

This will sound a bit conspiratorial, but mark this down. It's worse than just mental health issues. They are going to take it to the point of just SUSPECTING a mental health issue. Make the wrong statement in jest to your doc? Guns are gone. Refuse to answer certain questions that your doc asks? Guns are gone. I utterly hate it, but this asshat in the WH and his minions are going to make me into a tin foiler yet. Question is can we hold out until the prick leaves office and can we replace him with someone with at least half a clue?

I am right there with you. I am not usually a conspiracy theory type of guy, but all of the totally 180° bassackwards **** this administration is doing makes it pretty damn hard for me not to start shopping for the best Reynolds wrap design out there!

 

[Wild Bill1]

.

 

[Fyrtwuck]

How about statistics from violent crime as a whole, listing every method of violence used. I'd be willing to bet guns are NOT at the top of the list.

 

[slemmo]

Don't you have public statistics released by the FBI or something for this? In Norway our equivalent of fbi release statistics every year......how many killings, method and so on. Which is nice, cause anyone can see that guns are so insanely low on the list that you can hardly even make statistics on it.

 

[dennishoddy]

Don't you have public statistics released by the FBI or something for this? In Norway our equivalent of fbi release statistics every year......how many killings, method and so on. Which is nice, cause anyone can see that guns are so insanely low on the list that you can hardly even make statistics on it.

We do. The FBI releases crime statistics annually.
It's pretty eye opening when looking at all the categories they break it down to line items like age, region, ethnicity, etc.

 

[ocphy]

This will sound a bit conspiratorial, but mark this down. It's worse than just mental health issues. They are going to take it to the point of just SUSPECTING a mental health issue. Make the wrong statement in jest to your doc? Guns are gone. Refuse to answer certain questions that your doc asks? Guns are gone. I utterly hate it, but this asshat in the WH and his minions are going to make me into a tin foiler yet. Question is can we hold out until the prick leaves office and can we replace him with someone with at least half a clue?

There will always be docs like myself who won't ask questions about guns. If we do it is to see what your bringing over to shoot later lol.


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[Scott Hearn]

There will always be docs like myself who won't ask questions about guns. If we do it is to see what your bringing over to shoot later lol.


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I just hope that you are able to continue to make decisions for yourself in the future. I think they'll pressure health care professionals more and more and move closer to single payer.

 

[ocphy]

I just hope that you are able to continue to make decisions for yourself in the future. I think they'll pressure health care professionals more and more and move closer to single payer.

Of course they will eventually get there. Set up shop on my own at that point. Trade a doctors visit for a box of ammo lol


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