Monday morning quarterbacking: self defense in the news

poopgiggle · Sep 8, 2016

Burk keeps posting these hypothetical shoot/no-shoot situations as thought exercises. In the same vein, here's a thing that actually happened: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Charges-Dismissed-Against-Man-Who-Allegedly-Killed-Would-Be-Rapists-Wife-NYC-392598691.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_NYBrand

The facts as I understand them from the news report:

- Coked Up Guy breaks into apartment and proceeds to sexually assault woman.
- Woman calls for husband, woman's cousin attempts to fight off Coked Up Guy.
- Coked up guy flees to elevator.
- Husband arrives, woman points out attacker.
- Husband pursues Coked Up Guy with a tire iron.
- A fight ensues; Husband has a tire iron, Coked Up Guy is whipping Husband with a belt.
- The "tire iron vs belt" fight goes exactly as everyone figured it would.
- Husband is charged with manslaughter.

Charges were dropped, presumably because prosecuting this guy would be a PR nightmare and finding a jury to convict him would be a job. BUT do you think he committed a crime?

Replace "Coke" with "Meth," "tire iron" with "gun," "apartment" with "house," and "elevator" with "his truck" and this is an entirely believable Oklahoma story so it's worth considering.

Wall · Sep 8, 2016

Burk keeps posting these hypothetical shoot/no-shoot situations as thought exercises. In the same vein, here's a thing that actually happened: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Charges-Dismissed-Against-Man-Who-Allegedly-Killed-Would-Be-Rapists-Wife-NYC-392598691.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_NYBrand

The facts as I understand them from the news report:

- Coked Up Guy breaks into apartment and proceeds to sexually assault woman.
- Woman calls for husband, woman's cousin attempts to fight off Coked Up Guy.
- Coked up guy flees to elevator.
- Husband arrives, woman points out attacker.
- Husband pursues Coked Up Guy with a tire iron.
- A fight ensues; Husband has a tire iron, Coked Up Guy is whipping Husband with a belt.
- The "tire iron vs belt" fight goes exactly as everyone figured it would.
- Husband is charged with manslaughter.

Charges were dropped, presumably because prosecuting this guy would be a PR nightmare and finding a jury to convict him would be a job. BUT do you think he committed a crime?

Replace "Coke" with "Meth," "tire iron" with "gun," "apartment" with "house," and "elevator" with "his truck" and this is an entirely believable Oklahoma story so it's worth considering.

are you the cousin?

poopgiggle · Sep 8, 2016

yes

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dennishoddy · Sep 8, 2016

SOB got what he deserved.

wgm2011 · Sep 8, 2016

What got him in trouble was the 4th line.

- Husband pursues Coked Up Guy with a tire iron.

The scumbag got what he deserved but chasing the bad guy after he tries to flee can quickly turn you into the bad guy.

Its one thing to follow the suspect to see what house he runs into or get the license number of the vehicle he is using for his escape, but to actually catch him and beat him down is not going to go well with the local DA. They will call you a one man lynch mob or a hot head that considers himself a judge, jury and executioner.

Again, the scumbag got what he deserves. And the husband, on the legal front, just got very lucky. Hope his luck holds out when the attorney that tracks down the scumbags next of kin files a mega-suit for damages in the killing of their choirboy.

Just my opinion. I'm not an LEO, attorney or someone that spent last night at the Holiday Inn.

poopgiggle · Sep 8, 2016

Flatland Shooter said:
What got him in trouble was the 4th line.

- Husband pursues Coked Up Guy with a tire iron.

The scumbag got what he deserved but chasing the bad guy after he tries to flee can quickly turn you into the bad guy.

Its one thing to follow the suspect to see what house he runs into or get the license number of the vehicle he is using for his escape, but to actually catch him and beat him down is not going to go well with the local DA. They will call you a one man lynch mob or a hot head that considers himself a judge, jury and executioner.

Again, the scumbag got what he deserves. And the husband, on the legal front, just got very lucky. Hope his luck holds out when the attorney that tracks down the scumbags next of kin files a mega-suit for damages in the killing of their choirboy.

Just my opinion. I'm not an LEO, attorney or someone that spent last night at the Holiday Inn.

I think that Husband committed a crime according to the text of the law but it might be hard to get a jury to convict him, if you know what I mean.

It's worth noting that the victim's family urged the DA to drop charges.

Wall · Sep 8, 2016

yes

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were you also coked up?

poopgiggle · Sep 8, 2016

prolly

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drmitchgibson · Sep 8, 2016

Tire iron guy did not commit a crime. Tire iron guy is a hero to billions. Any law that could threaten the liberty of tire iron guy squashes justice and is worthless trash, and those types of laws are what twists an idealized justice system into the unrespectable caricature we call a legal system. Legal systems aren't inherently respectable, nor are they just. What they do have that makes them tolerable is the guise of justice, and a phalanx of enforcers that are hailed as heroes for taking very little risk in order to protect us all from ourselves.

Justice was served in this case long before any police arrived to pervert it.

FortyMikeMike · Sep 9, 2016

Mitch Gibson said:
Tire iron guy did not commit a crime. Tire iron guy is a hero to billions. Any law that could threaten the liberty of tire iron guy squashes justice and is worthless trash, and those types of laws are what twists an idealized justice system into the unrespectable caricature we call a legal system. Legal systems aren't inherently respectable, nor are they just. What they do have that makes them tolerable is the guise of justice, and a phalanx of enforcers that are hailed as heroes for taking very little risk in order to protect us all from ourselves.

Justice was served in this case long before any police arrived to pervert it.

So you had the tire iron?

According to the current letter of the law, I think the husband probably committed a crime. Do I agree with his charges being dropped? Most certainly.