Middle Ground on Gun Control

bigfutz · Oct 19, 2013

We have no shortage of discussions on gun control founded on the basis of disarming criminals. The tide seems to push that as long as guns are easily accessible to law abiding citizens, criminals can get them as well. So making them inaccessible to everyone will be default make them inaccessible to criminals, right?

How about we make the criminals inaccessible to guns. Hmmm... did someone say "prison?" Hey, if the System thinks they are fit to walk the streets, drive a car, enter the workforce, and use public restrooms, why not give them gun rights, too? Everybody yells "NO!" when asked should felons be allowed to own a gun, but no one asks should rapists and murderers be allowed to re-enter society. I think you would hear the same resounding "NO!"

Oliver2w1 · Oct 19, 2013

Instead you hear nothing but how the criminal "feels". How horrible was his childhood, what did mommy or daddy not do for him. It must be someone or somthing elses fault johny rapes a lot victimized 12 people. If this country would stop acting like castrated half men this wouldn't be the issue it is now. Stop criminalizing the honest joe who had to blow away some POS to protect whats his. Stop trying to limit where and when we carry.

fordnut · Oct 19, 2013

Public Hangings and open carry...Would stop a lot of crime.

Steve

Tigerstripe · Oct 19, 2013

lets get that instituted. sounds like a plan.

my point on the death penalty is if we just get it done instead of waiting years, yes a few people werent guilty, but when its done the example is set. the FBI wont be fretting about a closed case when the penalty has been used. if you think it is so easy to exicute an innocent man, dont be a criminal.

still not sure i explaned myself right. very few people keep their eyes on any one case. the majority will see, X was convicted then exicuted. soon that will be out of mind and on to the gov shutdown or such crap. as it is now,X was convicted then 15 years later it doesnt mean anything when a paragraph is printed that hre is or isnt exicuted.

it sounds bad but in other words what we dont know will actually help in detering crime.

Midnight Raver · Oct 20, 2013

To me it seems cut and dried. In the 21st century, it is easier to prove guilt on clearcut cases. One such as the marathon bombings of Moscowchusetts is a prime example. While we have no death penalty here( :roll: ), the surviving perpetrator can be dealt with on the Federal level. Incontrevertible evidence should yield definite action of this nature, there is NO logical reason why not to. He is now a naturalized citizen and has acted against the country he wished to belong to. No extradition, no excuse- period. To prolong situations like this is a waste of time, resourses, and money- period.

You reap what you sow- it is your own fault, nobody elses. :|

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

A great number of people that are anti-gun don't correlate guns with crime. They correlate guns with "evil."

Their position is one of emotion and principle. You cannot assuage zealots and ideologues with logic, deductive reasoning or the scientific method.

Oliver2w1 · Oct 20, 2013

Avtomat-Acolyte said:
Their position is one of emotion and principle.

Yes and its emotion that contradicts principle. The controlists scream about freedom of speech, search and seizure and due process and in the same breath would shred the second amendment. How can you claim to stand by the principles of the constitution and then attempt to pick and choose what you believe would be best for everyone else. That?s what it comes down to, the belief that they know better than you how YOU should live, and what freedoms YOU should enjoy.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

Oliver2w1 said:
Avtomat-Acolyte said:

Their position is one of emotion and principle.

Click to expand...

Yes and its emotion that contradicts principle. The controlists scream about freedom of speech, search and seizure and due process and in the same breath would shred the second amendment. How can you claim to stand by the principles of the constitution and then attempt to pick and choose what you believe would be best for everyone else. That?s what it comes down to, the belief that they know better than you how YOU should live, and what freedoms YOU should enjoy.

The people you just described go by the common term of "everyone."

No one respects absolutes of anything you mentioned. Everyone cherry-picks. If the Constitution was meant to be followed then it would've had a binding clause for immediate execution by parties that violate it.

Life sucks. Get a battle rifle, a shitload of magazines and ammo, and prepare to defend yourselves. Magical pieces of paper and lofty ideals are worthless in real life.

Oliver2w1 · Oct 20, 2013

I would love to know what you mean by if the Constitution were meant to be followed. It is the frame work for this nation and it is being perverted by a minority who knows better than the majority. Those lofty ideas and magical pieces of paper are the reason we can have this discussion and enjoy safes stocked with weapons and ammo. The reason there is no execution clause is because guess what, we fought a war to get away from that type of government but rest assured the Patriot Act and the NDAA will fill the tyrants void and provide you with the conflict you long for.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

Oliver2w1 said:
I would love to know what you mean by if the Constitution were meant to be followed. It is the frame work for this nation and it is being perverted by a minority who knows better than the majority. Those lofty ideas and magical pieces of paper are the reason we can have this discussion and enjoy safes stocked with weapons and ammo. The reason there is no execution clause is because guess what, we fought a war to get away from that type of government but rest assured the Patriot Act and the NDAA will fill the tyrants void and provide you with the conflict you long for.

Civil Rights revocation began long before you or I were born, let alone the passage of those pieces of legislation you specified.

Oliver2w1 · Oct 20, 2013

The legislation I mentioned in the previous post was meant as an illustration of tyranny and the erosion of the Constitution by those who would claim to be your betters. May I remind you that a lofty idea is what sparked a revolution, which sparked a war, which birthed a nation. To sit in cynical indifference allows the usurpers that much more control until one or a thousand freedom lovers with rifles and magazines are but a speed bump and then life will really suck.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

Oliver2w1 said:
To sit in cynical indifference allows the usurpers that much more control until one or a thousand freedom lovers with rifles and magazines are but a speed bump and then life will really suck.

What does electing them and financing them do? If you've ever cast a vote for a Democrat or a Republican or ever paid taxes then I am not sure how you purport to have a morally superior position.

Oliver2w1 · Oct 20, 2013

At the risk of sounding confrontational, do you not vote or pay taxes? I have never said mine to be the moral high ground but a position my beliefs and time have lead me to adopt. Leaders and political affiliations I once identified with have tossed aside their fundamental principles and have governed with impunity. A new generation of consumers and the entitled digest the bought and paid for messages of a biased media with a ?who cares? attitude. All the while our freedoms are snuffed out with a pen and a smile under the veil of safety and security.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

Oliver2w1 said:
At the risk of sounding confrontational, do you not vote or pay taxes? I have never said mine to be the moral high ground but a position my beliefs and time have lead me to adopt. Leaders and political affiliations I once identified with have tossed aside their fundamental principles and have governed with impunity. A new generation of consumers and the entitled digest the bought and paid for messages of a biased media with a ?who cares? attitude. All the while our freedoms are snuffed out with a pen and a smile under the veil of safety and security.

I'm just being cynical about anything that even touches the 2nd Amendment (including anything gun related). Every single law relating to any weaponry is unConstitutional and therefore illegal. Our Civil Rights have been ground up since before any of us were born and have continued to be eroded away by each successive Congress and president.

The government does operate with impunity.

And, I don't know if your last line was an obscure reference to Benjamin Franklin, but the man was absolutely right when he said "Those that would sacrifice essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither." I feel that we're beyond the tipping point of Pax Americana and I'm just anticipating the collapse and subsequent societal purge.

Fire kills everything. Blood cleans everything.

I can't participate in conversations like this and I have to remember to pretend to be happy when I speak to a work-ordered psychiatrist in the coming weeks.

Oliver2w1 · Oct 20, 2013

Yes it was a quick reference to good ?ol Ben and to be honest I?m waiting on the same purge with a heavy heart. I love this country and am angered and saddened at how weak it?s become. I haven?t gotten to cynicism yet, I?m still holding on anger.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Oct 20, 2013

Oliver2w1 said:
Yes it was a quick reference to good ?ol Ben and to be honest I?m waiting on the same purge with a heavy heart. I love this country and am angered and saddened at how weak it?s become. I haven?t gotten to cynicism yet, I?m still holding on anger.

Did we just become best friends?