LEO in shooting matches

22+1

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Cabot, Arkansaw
I don't know about other places, but except for a few (and they are good at it) it seems really hard to talk LEO guys into competing in anything.
IDPA, USPSA or 3 gun. Seems like in their line of work it would be a good idea. Not that these matches are tactical training or anything but I think it would still be useful.
 
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There are some pretty salty LEO and MIL in the pro series.

When I first started I expected matches to be full of Leo/mil. I guess when carrying a gun is your day job maybe you don't want to go carry one on your days off.
 
I would think being a Leo they would want to hit the gym & gun matches. Salary, wife, kids & child support might dictate how much they have to spend on shooting. IMO the handful of Leo that do shoot definitely know what they are doing.
 
Do not assume that every LEO is a gun person; far from it, on average. They look at their duty guns just like its another piece of gear on their belt.

The #1 reason most LEO's dont shoot matches or train out when theyre off-duty is just that; theyre not on the clock, getting paid.
 
My pops is one of the rare LEO "gun" guys who actually likes to shoot and does so pretty regularly. And from what he says the majority of LEO's barely can qualify. I don't really understand if it's a "fear" or lack of interest that makes it where they only shoot once a year but most definitely I think it's like Mike⬆️ said "it's just another piece of gear on their belt".
 
My step-dad, whom I lived with since I was nine was with OKC PD, never went shooting, plinking, never took me shooting, and didn't have any interest in it.
Guns in the house, never known any of them to be shot, mostly he bought, sold, and traded guns with other LEO's.
 
Mike is exactly right. LEO's are a cross section of the community they serve most of the time. If you look at any department, you'll have a couple gun guys, a couple car guys, golfers...ect. I have taken plenty of LEO's to matches and one of two things happens: they either love it and continue to do it or they hate it and never come back. I just introduced one of my officers to the sport and he tried IDPA and USPSA with me. Now he's hooked. He decided he will only shoot USPSA for now though, he didnt like the way IDPA worked out. Funny thing is, he's not interested in any of the gamer stuff. He could care less about custom open guns/limited guns and race holsters and mag pouches. He wants to run his duty gear and get better with it.

Alot of the guys that hate it just cant take the ego hit that comes with a complete butt whipping in your first match. A lot of them thought they were good shooters until they saw what some of you guys can do with a gun. That didnt happen to me. All I remember thinking when I started this is that I wanted to be that guy who won the match, and I started working to get there. But FWIW, I started this sport years before I became an LEO.
 
22+1 said:
I don't know about other places, but except for a few (and they are good at it) it seems really hard to talk LEO guys into competing in anything.
IDPA, USPSA or 3 gun. Seems like in their line of work it would be a good idea. Not that these matches are tactical training or anything but I think it would still be useful.
LEOs, military etc do not make one a "shooter or gun person" . How many times on the news Cops or what not are folks trying to figure out how to clear a firearm they came across. I have had many military and LEOs both local and Fed back at Paso del Norte and some do well and like action shooting and some do not. Best across the board shooters are the Border Patrol. They have it made. Their folks come to the match and use duty gear. They take a signed scorecard back and get more free ammo. To cool. I have thrown TSA, FBI and an NRA instructor off my bays for doing stupid sheet. FBI was supposed to had been an instructor as well. Military young man showing off for the ladies that showed up would had been thrown off except it was the last stage. He never came back. These were from gross safety violations and not an oversight or boo boo. I have had some really good Leos and military out, even bullseye shooters who could cut the x out of anything seen, but they were not action shooters, but damn fine shots. Some do what they are good at and don't like getting out of their comfort zone, or just don't have the time and resources.

My take is if I may have to depend on my shooting and firearm handling skills I want to be the best I could be. Others feel the training and qualifications at the department is enough. Seems odd to me but it is what it is. Never assume one can not shoot and shoot fast based on job or looks. One of my good shooters was in his 70s with both hips replaced. He couldn't move fast, but that didn't keep him from moving his trigger finger fast and he rarely missed.

I wish all departments local and Fed would train at least like the Border Patrol. Bad guys wouldn't be costing tax payers so much money.

Just rambling, but never assume and always try and get your friends to the range for a good practice session or match.
 
I am a full time deputy in Sumner County. Kansas.I think most LEO don't shoot as much as they do because of the money it costs and time. Being that most cops who really want to shoot or like to shoot have to work weekends. Maybe someone one day will hold weekday competition and/or night time ones, then maybe some more LEO would be able to compete.
 
Eric Gambill said:
Alot of the guys that hate it just cant take the ego hit that comes with a complete butt whipping in your first match. A lot of them thought they were good shooters until they saw what some of you guys can do with a gun. That didnt happen to me. All I remember thinking when I started this is that I wanted to be that guy who won the match, and I started working to get there. But FWIW, I started this sport years before I became an LEO.
Exactly what we've found, we are having a LEO/MIL only match this fall to try and get more into shooting.

We have got their trainer to start coming to matches, he see's the benefit of using their gear under a different kind of stress, reloads, malfunctions, weapons transitions , etc.

He is constantly riding them about shooting more, he has got a couple to show up, they had a great time. Hopefully they will convince their buddies to give it a try.
 
Im currently in CLEET firearms instructor school. While I haven't shot any official competitions, I think you guys are spot on. Before I was in law enforcement I assumed cops were all gun/car guys like myself. I was in for a bit of a surprise. While we are selected for our type "A" personalities, LE tend to be a cross section of the community. There are some tremendous shooters in our department, people I will probably never catch up to, but there are also those who see their firearm as not much more than a heavy item on their belt they have to shoot twice a year.
 
I see the same thing with military and LEOs. Not many are really into guns and so many think since they shoot expert in qual, they're good shooters. The other issue is the common opinion among the tactical teds that a shooting competition does not replicate the stress of real combat, and to be competitive, you must do things that are not tactically prudent (i.e. standing in a doorway or window to hose a target array). There is an example of a very well-respected trainer down in Texas, a guy I would love to be able to learn from, who made a cautionary pro tip video about shooting plate racks, waiting for each one to fall rather than sweeping through the rack. My answer to someone with an observation like that is if you are fighting six "threats", giving a round to each before readdressing any particular one is probably more prudent than shooting one, assessing, and moving to the next, since people shot don't tend to drop instantly, and the rest of the threats remain fully functional.

As for replicating the stress of a real fight, nope. I'm dumb and have been perplexed and stressed by stages before, but nothing has held a candle to having an RPG round detonate right next to my HMMWV door and then looking for the guy who did it. However, I would submit that the pressure to perform rapid manipulation of your weapon and place fast, accurate hits under the pressure of time and knowing your peers are watching your every move, while not as rough as being in a fight for your life, is much more stressful than trying to perform a 6 second El Pres in a training course.

Sorry for the novel, but as a firearms trainer for the army's MP school who has been successful in getting exactly two of my fellow instructors out to a match in three years, this is another topic that hits close to home.
 
There are a lot of LEO's that struggle with the no officer left behind qualification course. We do quarterly firearms training. I pulled out a steel course of fire on them that included multiple static steel, a Texas star, and a plate rack.... I watched several of them run two mags at the star....
 
The Ponca Range has a Kay County Deputy, OHP, and an Osage county Deputy come to the USPSA matches on occasion. They always ask to shoot their duty weapons. No problem.

Good training for them IMHO.
 
Local PD has a shooting team that does Bianchi Cup and a few other competitions like that. So we see a lot of LEO shooters in my area. Don't see many active duty Mil shooters, but the closest military base is Air Force. Tons of military veteran shooters though, myself included. Florida has an unusually high number of vets.
 
A big issue is shift work. Most LE work isn't 9-5 with weekends off. Most new cops end up on nights working weekends. Since weekends during the day are when most matches are held, most genuinely can't go shoot matches without burning leave. Also - most LE jobs take an awful lot of your time up, especially when new. Try telling your wife that you're going to ignore her and the kids so you can go play with guns more. Lead ballon.

Just not in the cards for most LE.
 
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