J-Frame .38 Special

[Jefpainthorse]

Been using the 38 apecial since '79 when choices were limited. And I've pondered most of the latest developments since then.

Out of a short bore I'd like to see the biggest. consistent hole left in a adversary... and those simple old 158 grain Semi Wad Cutters seem to have a solid history of doing just that. The jacketed soft points are neck and neck with the lead SWC. Hollow points fired from short barrels have and always will be questionable in my opinion.

Those SWCS are controllable too. If you need a second shot (or third) it will happen a little faster with minimal recoil... plus- those old steel J frames I favor have the sights regulated for 158 grain standard velocity ammo. Those plain Jane RNL 158's make a mess from contact to normal room ranges fired from snubbys also.

Federal Hydrashock +P if you really insist on a higher tech solution.... and if you have a 4 inch gun ... those may have been the perfect service load over the years. The more "physics" you rely on to get terminal performance, the more chance of failure you have.

Lead bullets... making .357 sized holes since 1902.

That's strictly my opinion- your milage may vary.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Seems alot of folks are worried about the "More than one" issue. Anytime there is more than one subject there is a leader, he's the first to go if he's brave enough to stay after you present your gun. Most folks don't feel like getting swiss cheese syndrome, and more fights/altercations are stopped by the presence of a gun, more than using one. I for one carry a J-frame most of the time, and with two speedloaders and a strip feel fine about my option. I also practice regularly with my 640ND from 7yds out to 25yds. Lots of folks think you can't hit anything past 10yds with these snubnosed guns. They are just as accurate as their bigger famliy members, and can surprise you if you take the time to practice with them. You not only need to be shooting them, but dryfire practice too, as you want the strength in the hand and muscle memory to make that little blaster perform. I know there's all kinds of exotic ammo now on the market being pushed for these guns and other little ones. To me the finest round you can get for the J-frame is the "Old" 158GR-SWCHP+P from Remington, Federal, or Winchester. They have a track record yet to be beaten by anything out there right now. Another very good one in this loading comes from Buffalo Bore, they use extreamly soft lead with a gascheck, and it will penetrate and expand. I carry the J-frame for protection, not because I know I'll get into a gun fight. If I knew that, I'd stay home, or if I had no other choice I'd be packing a rifle and high cap pistol, plus friends!!!!!!!!!

I figured you would chime in Leighton. Good stuff as usual my friend

Lead bullets... making .357 sized holes since 1902.

This may be my new signature line..........

 

[ldp4570]

I figured you would chime in Leighton. Good stuff as usual my friend



This may be my new signature line..........

A story I'd like to relate to everyone happened back in the late '80's in Georgia with a GSP officer who was off duty, and walked into a gunfight against three perp's who had just robbed a local grocery store. Now alot for him depended on tactic's, but also his skill with a SW649 he was carrying. He did have to reload, longest shot was approximately 20yds, and he only missed with one round out of ten fired. Final out come was three BG DRT, and GSP officer with a wound to his lower leg from shrapnel off the concrete. One of the BG's was armed with a shotgun, the other two with pistols. We were told this story by this officer while in the acadamy during one of our courses on off duty carry.

 

[Mitch Rapp]

A story I'd like to relate to everyone happened back in the late '80's in Georgia with a GSP officer who was off duty, and walked into a gunfight against three perp's who had just robbed a local grocery store. Now alot for him depended on tactic's, but also his skill with a SW649 he was carrying. He did have to reload, longest shot was approximately 20yds, and he only missed with one round out of ten fired. Final out come was three BG DRT, and GSP officer with a wound to his lower leg from shrapnel off the concrete. One of the BG's was armed with a shotgun, the other two with pistols. We were told this story by this officer while in the acadamy during one of our courses on off duty carry.

Awesome story.

 

[kimberst245]

Under the broad term of "adequate" I would say that for most intents and purposes the .38 J frame is suitable, given the user has above average skill in using same. HOWEVER, employing the scout motto of "Always be Prepared" has stuck with me....Why possibly handicap yourself to only five rounds of a mild caliber? In the instance you are confronted with more than one assailant, would you bet that 2.5 rounds each is going to be the remedy for the problem? All I'm saying is go with whatever gives you a warm and fuzzy....for me that means more than 5 shots. And no, I'm not a piss poor shot. I can say that under extreme stress of a gun fight, bullets don't always go where you want them to.

 

[Avezorak]

I know lots of folks that use a 5shot for EDC. I have quite a few rounds through various models: 642, 340, 60, LCR, Taurus 85, etc. I can hold my own accuracy wise and can reload faster than most and not nearly as fast as some. They are plenty accurate and probably pack enough punch to take care of most 2 legged critters.

The reason I dont carry and wont carry one is the capacity. Call me paranoid, but I have more loaded in my primary carry than most people will have with their J and reloads. And I have a second mag to boot. My 17 is way more controllable, more accurate and 9mm outperforms 38 spl any day of the week. Some folks say its too big to carry, but I do it everyday.

I will agree that the J frame or LCP in your pocket is WAY better than your (whatever) on the dresser/console/safe). Just freaking carry something.

 

[MetropolisLakeOutfitters]

That's what I carry. I think it's plenty adequate. If you can't get out of a self defense situation with 5 shots, you need to be running. It's not meant as a home defense weapon for zombies.

PROS: It blends in to your front pocket real nice. Worst case people might think you have a boner.

CONS: Other than the 5 shots, it is very heavy for what it is, so carrying in shorts or an unzipped jacket pocket is awkward to say the least.

 

[shooterrdy]

Well as usual I'm late to the dance here. I did vote above and the voting shows that we think a J Frame is enough I can see both sides and I do own a J Frame in .357 I am sure the the round will do the job and I am sure that if there are more than 2 assailants I would hope to have a long gun within reach otherwise maybe I can get a couple before its over. I think the answer is to dress for the occasion if your driving through most rural communities through out the day then the J Frame should be fine
if your going to an event downtown in a large area ending after dark then maybe the G 19 or equivalent is the right choice. I am the worst to leave one in the console of the truck and hope I don't need it type.

 

[poopgiggle]

I wasn't totally sure but this picture convinces me that they're OK

 

[shootingbuff]

I thought this was an interesting thread. To bad it was an old post. Question is; are there different views now than back in 2011?

Myself, I don't mind a snubbie. Stats show what 3 shots or less for the avg encounter, but I am a highcap kinda of a guy so I do have concerns and spare ammo.

Couple of things to consider.
1st - SA If you know something may happen find yourself elseware or doing something to give your chance of survival a better outcome.
2nd - Cover is your frind for reloading or returning fire
3rd - see sig line.

Myself I hear a lot of good in ref to the short bbl ammo. Me, I like the old treasury load becasue I feel with reduced vel from a low vel round the best I can hope for is penetration. with the soft lead if I get deformation that is a plus. Besides it seems to me snubbies seem to be spot on with the 58gr bullets. YMMV

 

[shootingbuff]

Me? I carry a .380 Keltec, all the time, supplementing with a Kahr CW-40 if enough cover clothes are available.(still can't find a way to conceal when wearing my speedo, How do you guys do it?)

Modern .380 ammo is optimized for very short barrels. I'd like to see some special SD ammo built for the Jframes to get the velocity up.

Try Buffalo Bore's 380ACP. wow

 

[Burk Cornelius]

4 years ago the majority of you thought a J-Frame .38 was sufficient as a primary carry weapon (according to this poll)

Have you changed your mind? I have. I moved up from a G26 to a G19. I might even make the move up to a G17 for my primary. The threat is different than it used to be.

The days of training for [only] a 2-3 shot defensive situation are gone. Things have changed

 

[Matt1911]

Keep the 19 and use 17 mags for backup.

 

[KurtM]

I haven't changed my mind at all. When I was 13 or so I shot a coffee machine (the kind like in a hospital were you drop in a quarter and the paper cup would drop) with a 158 grain +P "Treasury" load out of a 36 S&W. The round didn't even penetrate the cheap old sheet metal housing. Had no use for them since. I usually carry a 1911, or when I feel all modern and such a Glock 23.

 

[poopgiggle]

Have you changed your mind?

No, Eva Green is still really hot.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Physiology hasn't changed. It's still just "adequate".

I've sold mine off for an LCR and then traded that off for a G33. I agree with you Burk, things are changing in that we see so many encounters with multiple attackers and 5 rounds just doesn't give me comfort anymore. My carry is a 9 Shield or G19 with +P+ bonded bullet loads or a G33 with full house .357Sig loads, not these watered down factory offerings we have now. I've struggled with picking up another snubbie but if I do I know that I'll find myself grabbing it instead of a more capable tool. They are just too easy to carry. Besides, if I really want to carry a snubbie I have one in .357 Magnum that I know for a fact isn't underpowered. I've chrono'd 205PF loads through it. I've found a magic powder for them, killer velocities and little flash.

I've never been impressed with the "FBI' load. Give me my own handloads or that Speer Gold Dot bonded bullet specifically for snubbies. I know they'll do the job, it's just that I need more on hand to feel comfortable these days.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

I haven't changed my mind at all. When I was 13 or so I shot a coffee machine (the kind like in a hospital were you drop in a quarter and the paper cup would drop) with a 158 grain +P "Treasury" load out of a 36 S&W. The round didn't even penetrate the cheap old sheet metal housing. Had no use for them since. I usually carry a 1911, or when I feel all modern and such a Glock 23.

You were carrying when you were 13? Level achieved: Maximum

 

[KurtM]

Well when I went riding ( read horse here) around my dad always wanted us armed. I always thought his model 36 was cool, you know old Steve McGarrett carried one. Some one had dumped that coffee machine on the side of the road and you know 13 year old boys. I'm not kidding, after shooting that thing and being less than impressed I always carried a 45 after that. No not a 1911 a model P. It wasn't till I was 16 that I got my first 1911, it was a Colt Combat Commander in Nickle.....always a bling guy.

 

[Burk Cornelius]

Well when I went riding ( read horse here) around my dad always wanted us armed. I always thought his model 36 was cool, you know old Steve McGarrett carried one. Some one had dumped that coffee machine on the side of the road and you know 13 year old boys. I'm not kidding, after shooting that thing and being less than impressed I always carried a 45 after that. No not a 1911 a model P. It wasn't still I was 16 that I got my first 1911, it was a Colt Combat Commander in Nickle.....always a bling guy.

Yip, if we found something that looked shoot-worthing, it took a blasting.....

I will still leave your level at maximum for having a nickle plated 1911 at 16! I had a Mossberg .410

 

[Matt1911]

This thread makes me want my 442 back that I stupidly sold.