Burk Cornelius
Regular guy
He was, very specifically, wrong!
Is a 44 mag legal to carry?
- Thread starter WillR
- Start date
He was, very specifically, wrong!
Brianatc
Well-Known Fanatic
So my .308 win savage striker is legal? It's kinda hard to conceal, but won't be so bad with the open carry coming out.
Adam Striegel
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That's strange ... I remember even joking about how Dirty Harry was breaking the law carrying around that hand cannon. So is a .50 cal really the only gun that's illegal to carry in OK?
16" is the max length. So my AR "pistol" is out.
Iggie
Well-Known Fanatic
What class did you take?
There are also several calibers larger the .45 I don't have a list off hand.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
Read the addition/changes that modify existing CC laws to OC laws effective Nov 1
Pistols in Ok are less than 16 inches.... 308 is less than .45
Open pistols must be carried in holster or scabbards- belt or shoulder type (and what standards a holster must meet for retention were not adressed on purpose when this was written)
You must have current SDA licences and ID... if your approached by a LEO while in OC mode he can demand and you must produce those card. If you can produce the cards- he has to cut you loose unless your suspect in some other criminal act
Cities and counties cannot write local laws that forbid OC (preemption)
Cities and counties cannot invoke other charges like civil disturbance etc on a legal open carrier.
this stuff has all be published and rehashed on every gun board... plus it's public record at this point
I expect every dick wad in OK without a SDA card to spend a weekend in jail over this...simply because they attempt to OC without a SDA card the first few days of November.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
the "shooting test" is a joke.
Unless your a lawyer - a SDA istructor cannot "teach" the legal part of the lesson plan. He can read it to a class- he just cannot explain it to them. Of course- students ask questions and stuff gets the editorial treatment so the take away can be some pretty silly mis information. I have read the SDA.. and compared to your mortgage it is a pretty straight forward document.
I dont have a dog in the hunt--- but having a gun lawyer like Freisen handle the legal part like he does at H&H makes it worth the $60 max charge they ask for.
Your $39 CCW class may be worth exactly what you paid for it. I was up at a local range last week and a SDA class was shooting in relays... the second squad of students was doing a very good job of waving every Tomcat, Keltec and LCR around the room while they were waiting to shoot- At one point I did tell a blue haired old girl that if she pointed her gun at me -again- she should expect me to draw mine and shoot her. I was not smiling when I made that offer either.
I know for a fact the class instructions clearly stated those guns needed to stay bagged till they got to the firing line. I can see why many SDA holders don't understand some pretty basic stuff.
nikatkimber
Well-Known Fanatic
"larger than .45 caliber"
Anything .454 and under meets this description, and should therefore be legal. It says nothing about power, so even more powerful cartridges like 10mm and .44 Magnum are both allowable as they are under .45 caliber.
One thing you must remember, is significant digits.
.454 = .45
.454 does NOT = .450
So, .455 does NOT = .45
Also, please note that .480 Ruger does NOT shoot .45 Colt. It is a .475 bore diameter and is NOT safe for .452 dia bullets. Nor is it legal to carry.
Anything .454 and under meets this description, and should therefore be legal. It says nothing about power, so even more powerful cartridges like 10mm and .44 Magnum are both allowable as they are under .45 caliber.
One thing you must remember, is significant digits.
.454 = .45
.454 does NOT = .450
So, .455 does NOT = .45
Also, please note that .480 Ruger does NOT shoot .45 Colt. It is a .475 bore diameter and is NOT safe for .452 dia bullets. Nor is it legal to carry.
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
Thanks... I don't usually spend a lot of time thinking about guns and cartridges more suitable for bears than humans and the smaller creatures we usually deal with.
I guess by the letter of the law a .455 Webley would be out of the question- even though many were re worked for 45 ACP? How about the old Eley .455?
In the real world it's a non sequiter.
Corey
Well-Known Fanatic
I keep waiting for Burk to show us his new CCW S&W .460 complete with custom holster.
I am glad the Judge uses .410 shot shells for simplicity. It is obvious .410 is nowhere near .45
LoL 2nd part not meant to be taken seriously
later
Corey
I am glad the Judge uses .410 shot shells for simplicity. It is obvious .410 is nowhere near .45
LoL 2nd part not meant to be taken seriously
later
Corey
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
People have told me face-to-face or on forums that Oklahoma says:
you cannot use a Judge under the SDA laws, as it seems:
Buckshot is not legal (from a Judge), or
Birdshot is not legal (from a Judge), or
Slugs are not legal (from a Judge), however-
No one has ever told me a Judge (or the SW version) is illegal under the SDA as a defensive handgun.
But .45 Colt is okie dokie event though shotshells are a better choice.
Logic without limits!
Based on that kind of conjecture it's easy to understand how a SDA instructor thinks .44 is "bigger" than a .45
poopgiggle
B Class Nobody
"Unless your a lawyer - a SDA istructor cannot "teach" the legal part of the lesson plan. He can read it to a class- he just cannot explain it to them. I have read the SDA.. and compared to your mortgage it is a pretty straight forward document."
THIS is what all SDA instructors are supposed to do!
I tell each class when they start quoting "some guy" that while they are waiting for their license, they need once in their lifetime to READ the entire SDA, and then check annually for updates each Nov. It is written pretty well for a legal document.
It means what it says, not what "some guy" interprets it to mean, and SDA instructors aren't supposed to interpret or paraphrase it.
Having taught "official" classes in several states and for the federal gov, I'm apalled at the cavalier approach some take in OK to the very specific CLEET SDA lesson plan, and to the SDA.
THIS is what all SDA instructors are supposed to do!
I tell each class when they start quoting "some guy" that while they are waiting for their license, they need once in their lifetime to READ the entire SDA, and then check annually for updates each Nov. It is written pretty well for a legal document.
It means what it says, not what "some guy" interprets it to mean, and SDA instructors aren't supposed to interpret or paraphrase it.
Having taught "official" classes in several states and for the federal gov, I'm apalled at the cavalier approach some take in OK to the very specific CLEET SDA lesson plan, and to the SDA.
Iggie
Well-Known Fanatic
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
And that is part of the peril in "adult education" and regulatory matters. Any class you go to (regardless of subject) there is ONE GUY who asks the damndest question- usually so he can promote an agenda or prove he's too smart to be in that class.
The poor other people who are exposed to this kind of fishing usually take away some mis- information when an instructor elects to "go there" and adress the blow- hards commentary.
I have noted also... lot's of time when you watch students -you know they have a question that needs clearing up--- but they just won't ask it out loud. Those folks will "side bar" you at a break.... and those in earshot will take away bits and peices of that conversation and come to bad interpretations based on the sound bites they heard.
Then... there is usally 90% that zones out. When you get to something that is a "NEVER DO THIS" point their brain picks that up as a ALWAYS DO THIS point and that is what those folks take away.
IN most states the SDA type class is a legal hurdle...you may have longer tests or more shooting but IT IS ALWAYS the carriers part to KNOW THE LAW and that requires effort beyond the training.
Adam Striegel
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Chase, that's probably the best advice anyone could give. I just can't agree with you enough...
nikatkimber
Well-Known Fanatic
I would go by what the typical bullet diameter is.
I was thinking about it after posting, and do you measure from the lands? The grooves? Bullet diameter? Cartridge name?
The whole thing is stupid. I mean, you can carry a .416 Rigby (not that I'd want to shoot one that was less than 16", but it'd be "legal"), but not a .480 Ruger?
Jefpainthorse
Fill in the Blank
Pretty much... at the time SDA was written "45" was as big as things got- at least commercially produced. I guess it was a way the legislators could say "it's ok with us" at the time.
Maybe we can strike that language next year? Or get Alaska and Arizona style laws that don't regulate trivia.
