hostage disarming criminal

taymoor · Jul 14, 2011

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjCCDXN5Pew&feature=player_embedded
Would these techniques be effective, or would the criminal's trigger finger automatically contract once movement was sensed? I'd be too much of a ***** to try these if I was on my knees with a gun to my head. That is when I'd try the old "Is that Jennifer Lopez?!" trick.

Burk Cornelius · Jul 14, 2011

TroyF will have something to say about it. LISTEN TO HIM!

Prdator · Jul 14, 2011

If you really want to know, Go take CQT with Mike Brown at USSA... and you'll get to know...

That stuff above is..... well..... Bullshit

taymoor · Jul 14, 2011

Prdator said:
That stuff above is..... well..... Bullshit

That is kind of what I figured. It kind of reminds me of wrestling. You would drill a move 1000 times with a cooperative partner. The new guys would wonder why it wasn't so easy on the mat when the other guy isn't facilitating your defense. The only difference being this video represents a scenario where a gun is in your face. :blink:

SteveS · Jul 14, 2011

The very first one can be effective. I teach it differently. It looks like he is covering himself with the muzzle during the disarm. But, it is hard to tell from this angle. If his wife is standing next to him, she is going to get shot. I teach it where the barrel goes up and the way I teach it is effective. The counter strikes leave a lot to be desired. Look at the second one. The attacker is NOT going to stand motionless. If you are going to disarm, do it and create distance quickly.

TroyF and I taught some disarms at our last seminar

Burk Cornelius · Jul 14, 2011

Burk Cornelius said:
TroyF will have something to say about it. LISTEN TO HIM!

SteveS said:
The very first one can be effective. I teach it differently. It looks like he is covering himself with the muzzle during the disarm. But, it is hard to tell from this angle. If his wife is standing next to him, she is going to get shot. I teach it where the barrel goes up and the way I teach it is effective. The counter strikes leave a lot to be desired. Look at the second one. The attacker is NOT going to stand motionless. If you are going to disarm, do it and create distance quickly.

TroyF and I taught some disarms at our last seminar

.....or Steve, They both have forgotten more about Hand to Hand than we will ever know

dennishoddy · Jul 14, 2011

Reminds me of a youtube video I saw of some pimp and his lady, that were giving a guy that had a SD classroom on the same corner, wanting the pimp to leave. The obvious drugged out pimp, pranced up to the SD instructor, and got promptly knocked out.

Pretty funny video, but it did show what a properly trained person can do to defend themself.

TroyF · Jul 14, 2011

I am without my laptop tonight, running the old Crackberry, so I'll have to watch the video tomorrow. But suffice to say, SteveS's advice is spot on. Anything I'd say, he probably already did. He taught me a lot of what I know. You could almost say he created my monster.

taymoor · Jul 14, 2011

dennishoddy said:
Reminds me of a youtube video I saw of some pimp and his lady, that were giving a guy that had a SD classroom on the same corner, wanting the pimp to leave. The obvious drugged out pimp, pranced up to the SD instructor, and got promptly knocked out. Pretty funny video, but it did show what a properly trained person can do to defend themself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZttwJ5_Ojc

An old classic

Wall · Jul 15, 2011

I love that clip, never gets old.

dennishoddy · Jul 15, 2011

That's the one!

TroyF · Jul 15, 2011

Ok. Watched the video. His manipulation of the wrist is spot on. And the guy has skills in that sense. However after he redirects the gun everything else I chalk up to "never been there" dojo martial arts.

It all boils down to this "redirect the weapon, control the weapon, attack the attacker, and then take away the weapon". Day 1 hour 1 Krav Maga in it's most basic sense.

Wall · Jul 15, 2011

I learned all of this stuff long ago watching Kung Fu Theatre on sat. afternoons.

taymoor · Jul 15, 2011

in a real life scenario, would the gun fire after (hopefully) being redirected?

TroyF · Jul 15, 2011

taymoor said:
in a real life scenario, would the gun fire after (hopefully) being redirected?

That is certainly a possibility, while being redirected. Which is why SteveS said he prefers the technique we teach. We redirect the gun in what we feel is the safest direction (away from us, and to minimize covering bystanders).

Now once the gun has been redirected, and it has fired, in all probability the gun is now in a state of malfunction. By grasping the gun, you would generally not allow the slide to travel. This is why we are pretty big fans of creating alot of distance while accessing our own firearms.

Trainers are individuals. SteveS and I do not agree on each technique we teach, but we are open-minded enough to rough out a technique. We come from different backgrounds in our early martial arts experience, but had the same work experience. So in the end our techniques end up being very similar, because we applied those techniques almost daily in the roughest patrol district in our jurisdiction (during the "roughest" shift). It's a constant test and evaluation of a technique to determine whether a technique is retained or discarded.

Southnarc and Mike Brown are very similar in their techniques. They differ somewhat in what SteveS and I do, but in the end our philosophies are the same. You cannot "access" (Southnarc's term) your own weapon/engage your enemy until you have control of the weapon that is about to cause harm.

I wish I could compile a comprehensive list of "must see' trainers. But that would be impossible. The 3 listed above are a great place to start, and Steve and Mike are local.

There just isn't any one perfect "system". Krav is great. Gracie is great. Southnarc is great. CQT is great. But there are holes in everything. Has to be. That's the nature of what we do. Which is why I'd say a great trainer is one with real world experience, and is well-versed in different systems, and knows how to relay information to the student.

Wall · Jul 15, 2011

Troy, what's your opinion on the Crane technique?
Can it be defended against or not?

cheech_029 · Jul 15, 2011

TroyF said:
Ok. Watched the video. His manipulation of the wrist is spot on. And the guy has skills in that sense. However after he redirects the gun everything else I chalk up to "never been there" dojo martial arts.

It all boils down to this "redirect the weapon, control the weapon, attack the attacker, and then take away the weapon". Day 1 hour 1 Krav Maga in it's most basic sense.

RCAT....the fundamentals never get old!

Troy I think you forgot to mention the techniques of the great Diemon Dave: