Help with cross-eye dominant shooter issues

rotarymike · Jun 10, 2013

My wife and I have always wondered why she has a hard time shooting rifles. I always thought, being smaller-framed, my rifle's length of pull was too much. She's good with a handgun if it's small enough to grip it.

We just got a new 10/22 that I'm setting up for her, and when I was checking eye relief on the scope we discovered the issue - it turns out she's left eye dominant and right-handed.

Anyone here got that setup and figured out a way to shoot long-arms decently?

I have a thought that higher scope rings might allow her to turn her head to get the left eye behind the scope without contorting her face/neck/grip, but no idea if that works in reality. Also, that provides more of a chin-weld than a cheek-weld. OK with a .22, probably not with my larger rifles or an AR.

All the online stuff seems to say train to have a different dominant eye (maybe possible for a kid) or learn to shoot left-handed, which is a pain in my world of right-hand-only military surplus rifles. There's got to be another way.

PANZER22 · Jun 10, 2013

Ever thought about an offset scope mount to move the scope to the desired side.......Google offset scope mounts.

Dayman · Jun 10, 2013

I'm left eye dominant right handed shooter also :cry: . I have to find scopes with a lot of eye relief. My scopes are set by my non dominate eye so I don't really have a problem other than eye fatigue. With that said most people can't shoot my guns as accurate as me nor can I shoot guns they set up well. With two eye shooting my ghost image falls to the left. Does she shoot pistol with dominate eye?

Tigerstripe · Jun 10, 2013

tape the left side of her saftey glasses.

Dayman · Jun 10, 2013

Tigerstripe said:
tape the left side of her saftey glasses.

Oh good call this would work too and reduce eye strain

rotarymike · Jun 10, 2013

Dayman said:
Does she shoot pistol with dominate eye?

Yes. She tilts her head slightly and it is no problem - she's a little better shot than I am :?

I've got a cheap set of high rings coming; we might as well try those first.

Midnight Raver · Jun 10, 2013

Eye patch- and LOTS of practice!

Paco · Jun 10, 2013

Dayman said:
I'm left eye dominant right handed shooter also

Same here.
Long guns lefty, pistols either.

My left eye is significantly stronger that my right (yay! eye surgeries, better cross-dominant than cross-eyed I suppose

). I get headaches if I force my right eye to use a scope for a long period of time.

LiveFreeorDie · Jun 12, 2013

I'm also strongly left-eye dominant and very right-handed. Shooting long arms "left handed" ain't happening. Shooting left-eye and right-handed can be done and done well. I just have to use my right eye for the scope. It's actually comfortable though perhaps not "by the book". The only real downside is I can't shoot both eyes open like you're supposed to because the left eye struggles to take over (and usually wins).

If you and your wife agree to re-train her body (either her eyes or her shooting side), that's up to the two of you. Personally, I say let her shoot like she wants to. Cheek welds can help though, depending on the buttstock and scope mounting. Best of luck.

rotarymike · Jun 12, 2013

LiveFreeorDie said:
Personally, I say let her shoot like she wants to.

That's the problem - she can't shoot a normal rifle at all, only youth-sized and then with great awkwardness. It's all about how she has been trying to contort her neck to get her left eye behind the sights or scope.

This explains why she could only shoot my AR with the stock fully collapsed and then with difficulty - she was holding it more perpendicular to her body than a normal hold. Then, the weak hand is extended fully just to grab the front of the magwell, and there's not much muscular support to hold the rifle up or steady.

We're going to try the high-rise rings first, then an offset scope mount. For her AR I think we'll go with a red-dot and train her to use her right eye through it - supposedly the Bindon aiming concept works better for cross-eye dominant folks.

throttleup · Jun 12, 2013

I do not understand why she just doesn't learn to shoot long guns left handed. My son is right handed and left eye dominant. While he was shooting pistols both bullseye and IDPA, he just held the gun right handed and cocked his head to aim with his left eye. He always shot rifles left handed and shot trap and skeet left handed with no problems. He is in the Army now and shoots his M-16 left handed and quite well. It is better than getting all twisted up like a pretzel and probably picking up bad habits, especially with hard kicking rifles. Severe flinching because a poor cheek position immediately comes to mind. With a little practice and encouragement, she should pick it up in no time.

LiveFreeorDie · Jun 13, 2013

Sorry Mike, I think I misunderstood the problem. If she's contorting herself to get her left eye behing sights or a scope on a right handed long arm and/or shooting right handed, I can see how that is untenable, uncomfortable, and downright awkward. I might not have been clear but was trying to say that I shoot right handed using my right (non-dominant) eye. I know that's not "technically" correct and years ago, when I was young and malleable like throttleup's son is now, I probably should've learned to shoot left-handed. Only saying shooting left-eye dominant right-handed using her right eye is possible. If she's never shot left-handed, let her try it and see if she can adjust to the new shooting position. If not that, let her try closing her right eye (only to prevent the dominant left from "taking over") and using her right eye for the sights or scope. Hey, at least she's shooting with you. I think that in itself is great!

dreamerofdreams · Jun 14, 2013

Switch hands.

I'm left handed but right eye dominant. I shoot pistols left handed, shotguns right handed, and I usually shoot rifle's right handed but I'm very ambidextrous.

When I shoot rifles left handed, I make sure to close my dominant (right) eye so that I am using the correct eye.

I will also add that switching hands is not that hard. Just a few times out at the range and it'll feel like normal. My husband (also cross-dominant) resisted switching for the longest time and when he finally did he was shocked at how easy it was.

armaborealis · Jun 23, 2013

I am also cross-dominant.

Those of us that are cross-dominant have two choices.

1) Shoot with the dominant hand and the weak eye. Close the strong (dominant) eye, or put tape over the strong eye's shooting glasses.
2) Shoot with the weak hand and the dominant eye. This allows shooting both eyes open.

Leaning over the stock to try and shoot with the dominant hand and dominant eye is NOT a good choice. You simply cannot apply the fundamentals of marksmanship properly, and heavier recoiling rifles will be a problem.

I really suggest going with COA #2. It is not that hard to switch hands, in the long run being able to shoot with both eyes open is a plus, and you end up being pretty much ambidextrous with long guns which is handy. In the course of a weekend you can pretty much switch over.

beerman · Jun 25, 2013

My wife is Left-eye dominant and mostly left-handed, but does some things right-handed. She started out shooting right handed when I got her into shooting more, and it just never worked out that well. She's been shooting rifles left-handed for awhile now and is doing much better. I'd recommend trying to switch which hand she shoots with.

rotarymike · Jun 25, 2013

Well we've got a couple things to try if we can ever get a weekend to go shoot.

For her 10/22, I've got high rings and offset rings, which kinda sorta let her use her left eye. I'd take normal height rings to the range too so we can try left handed shooting (trying it at home, just mounting the rifle left handed is extremely uncomfortable for her).

We think for a tactical rifle a high-mounted red dot will do just fine, such as something mounted on an A2 carry handle.

She's never shot anything higher power than an AR-15, so we'll have to see where it goes with the above and ease into the big stuff.

At least, if our daughter starts showing this trend I can teach her to shoot left handed (in a few years).

armaborealis · Jul 4, 2013

rotarymike said:
Well we've got a couple things to try if we can ever get a weekend to go shoot.

For her 10/22, I've got high rings and offset rings, which kinda sorta let her use her left eye. I'd take normal height rings to the range too so we can try left handed shooting (trying it at home, just mounting the rifle left handed is extremely uncomfortable for her).

We think for a tactical rifle a high-mounted red dot will do just fine, such as something mounted on an A2 carry handle.

She's never shot anything higher power than an AR-15, so we'll have to see where it goes with the above and ease into the big stuff.

At least, if our daughter starts showing this trend I can teach her to shoot left handed (in a few years).

It doesn't pick my pocket or break my leg for a shooter to use awful technique, but realize that encouraging and enabling awful technique (like leaning over the rifle to use the right hand and left eye) WILL significantly limit any new shooter's progression in the shooting sports.

Positions such as prone, kneeling, and sitting may prove to be impossible to use.
Heavier recoiling rifles may prove impossible to use.
Rifles which are not configured in a specific manner with a specific optic mount may prove impossible to use.

Worse yet, she is building BAD muscle memory. It is far harder to unlearn a bad habit than it is to just develop a good habit from the get go. If she ever shows up to a rifle class, for example, she'll have to work way harder to unlearn bad habits like leaning over the rifle.

If she cannot shoot with her weak hand it would be FAR better for her to just close her strong eye, or put a piece of tape over her safety glasses (like skeet shooters do). Then she can shoot with her strong hand and weak eye with no problems, and without developing bad muscle memory. It is also limiting to shoot with your weak eye (makes it hard to shoot both eyes open) but that is far better than leaning over the rifle would be.

It may honestly be best to send the new shooter to a decent introductory rifle class such as NRA Basic Rifle or an Appleseed and let her figure out what works for her with a more impartial third party instructor.

rotarymike · Jul 4, 2013

That's exactly the plan - I got her, her own 10/22 so we could go to an Appleseed. She doesn't want that to be the first time she's shot the rifle though, so we've been looking into this so she can go with me to the range one weekend a miracle happens and we can get our old babysitter to watch the munchkin.

dreamerofdreams · Jul 4, 2013

Definitely get out to the range to get some familiarity with the rifle before going to Appleseed. She will run into difficulty during Appleseed though, if she's tilting her head over to use the other eye. Either shoot left handed and left eye, or right handed right eye (by closing the left eye or taping it). It will be uncomfortable for a very very very short length of time, I promise, and the results are worth it.

When y'all sign up for an Appleseed, drop Armaborealis or me a PM. If you go to a South Carolina shoot we'll almost certainly be there.