hand gun bullet effectiveness-FBI report

[Dux-R-Us]

http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

I came across this on the 1911 forum. I thought it cuts to the chase about bullet effectiveness and dispells much of the arm waving ballistics which is rampant in the popular literature and forums.

 

[McGuire]

great read...Its interesting to see that the reality of handgun lethality is based on the size and penetration, I guess Im gonna have to buy a Desert eagle

 

[J.t. Stapleton]

So according to this, FMJ's are once again the preferred bullet?

 

[brandt9913]

Not disagreeing with anything in the report, but the report is dated 1989.

 

[dennishoddy]

Not disagreeing with anything in the report, but the report is dated 1989.

 

[Dux-R-Us]

Not disagreeing with anything in the report, but [emphasis Dux's] the report is dated 1989.

No buts. But negates everything written prior to its use. I don't think people have significantly changed in the last 25 years.

I'm wondering if the impetous to write the report was the Florida FBI shootout in 1986. I recently rented the TV movie of this event from Netflix; In the Line of Duty: The FBI Murders. A scarey story. I found it troubling to watch, especially the ruthlessness of the two criminals. The criminals took many hits but continued to fight on.

 

[brandt9913]

No buts. But negates everything written prior to its use. I don't think people have significantly changed in the last 25 years.

I'm wondering if the impetous to write the report was the Florida FBI shootout in 1986. I recently rented the TV movie of this event from Netflix; In the Line of Duty: The FBI Murders. A scarey story. I found it troubling to watch, especially the ruthlessness of the two criminals. The criminals took many hits but continued to fight on.

Kevin,

Your point that people have not changed in 25 years is correct. I was putting the emphasis on the date because technology HAS changed in the last 25 years. As a result of the Florida FBI shootout, the FBI changed to 10mm semi-auto pistols. They then discovered that the 10mm was too much recoil for some shooters and requested that the FBI ammo be downloaded to a lighter 10mm load. While developing the lighter FBI load, Smith and Wesson figured out that they could produce the desired ballistics with a shorter case. In the early 90's, S&W developed the .40 cal S&W based on the lighter 10mm load the FBI requested.

I am sure many other things have changed since this report that are not as obvious as a new pistol round that is commonly used since the date of the report.

 

[dennishoddy]

Man, I had a nice long reply to this all done last night, but computer gremlins or something didn't send it with the quote in my reply above.
This is just my opinion, but I'm not so sure that ballistic gelatin is the greatest test of how a bullet performs. I know its the standard for the manufacturers to show off how great their defensive rounds are, demonstrating penetration, etc, but thats not how a bullet actually performs when entering a human or an animals body. There are obstructions in the way like buttons, zippers, etc that can have an effect on the bullet before it actually penetrates tissue, then there is the skeletal structure that is just under the skin way before any vital area.
Again, just my opinion, but instead of shooting through some layers of denim, or sheetrock, they should actually put some zippers, cell phone, necklaces, in front of a rack of ribs, then into the ballistic gel to get true terminal performance.
I will say that the bullets/loads manufactured for self defense in the last 10 years have marked improvement from what was available in the past.

 

[Dux-R-Us]

On further thought, people have changed in the past 25 years. The incidence of obesity has skyrocketed. Besides clothes, muscle and bone (as Dennis notes), a great deal of fat could be protecting an assaiant's vitals. Even with a frontal center shot, 12 inches of penetration [the industry's standard] might not be enough to hit vitals to immediately stop a person.

1, 2, 3, ....everybody sing the "He's too fat for my gun" polka.

Dzien dobry,

K

 

[dennishoddy]

On further thought, people have changed in the past 25 years. The incidence of obesity has skyrocketed. Besides clothes, muscle and bone (as Dennis notes), a great deal of fat could be protecting an assaiant's vitals. Even with a frontal center shot, 12 inches of penetration [the industry's standard] might not be enough to hit vitals to immediately stop a person.

Brings to mind the news story about a drive by shooting in okc a couple of years ago. Kid got shot with a .22 twice in the gut. He was laughing about it to the news interviewer about how his ample girth had even protected him against a 9 mm the year before. I'd say he was in the 400 lb class. Makes the drill, "2 to center mass, one to the head" pretty significant.