For the Revo Guys

[dennishoddy]

I bought this S&W 25-5 in .45LC last year. Target hammer, target trigger that breaks at 2.5 lbs really crisp. I've killed a couple of deer with it using the 250 grain Hornady Leverevolution ammo. On the chrony, it averages 850fps.

I understand there are lots of the old guns out there, and the factory's won't put out hot loads.

What I'm looking for is a faster PROVEN load that will run in a Smith for hunting. The Smiths aren't as sturdy as a Ruger super redhawk, but none the less, I'd like to hear what your running.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Dennis according to my Speer #14 that's just about as good as it gets in the S&W with jacketed bullets. As a matter of fact their 250 gold dot is right at 850 with one load going 874fps. And their test gun was a 25-6. If it shoots those Hornady loads good and they expand I'd stick with them. If you want to go to a lead bullet you can go a bit faster but not near where the Ruger will go. At least according to Speer...

 

[dennishoddy]

The reloading manuals are lawyer manuals from what I've seen. Its all about the glut of old colt .45 still in grandpa's closet.

I need to do some more research. I'm pretty sure it can be loaded hotter. I have a thousand 230 grain Hornady SST's I got with the reloader, and had a forum member donate some hard cast 370 grain lead with gas checks to the cause. He uses to shoot them in his Casul.

 

[KurtM]

40 grains of triple F powder will get right around 950 out of a 7 1/2" barrel and around 925 out of a 4 3/4" with a lead 255 grain bullet. You will get better velocities if you match your bullet diameter to the throats in your cylinder. I have had good luck with vhitavoury N350. As well.

 

[dennishoddy]

I'm one that sticks with what the "old reloaders" have used since the beginning of time, but the more I read about Vhitavoury, and how consistant it is, the more I want to try it.
Hell, I'm still using the WWII IMR4350 in my .30 cals. I've bought some Reloader 17 when the 4350 runs out for the 06 and .243WSSM AR.
I also frequent the Savage MLII wildcat forum. They are getting 2700 fps using Vhitavoury from a Savage MZ 300 grain. That has to hurt.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Okay Dennis I did some more looking. I don't have any experience with .45 Colt but when I see the difference in the "Ruger" data I just can't believe that the N frame S&W can't take more than what the manuals show. I can see why you want to bump it. I wouldn't go all the way to the top of the Ruger data though. I'd probably start about the middle of the "old" data and the starting point of the "Ruger" data and work up. Speer says that their "Ruger and Contender" data is about halfway between the old data and .44 magnum pressures. I'm thinking that just under the lower end of .44 magnum pressure should be fine for the gun if you use good brass. Afterall there are tons of S&W .44mags out there on the same frame.

Also their 250 grain Gold Dot Hollow point looks like it might be a good choice. They say it was made for standard .45 Colt velocities but works well up to the lower end of their higher data on deer size game. I'd try to get to 1100fps or so but would be happy with 1050 if it were me. W296 is showing the highest velocities which would make me want to try some Viht N110. I've played with it in .357mag for SD loads and it seems to do what I want. I still need to chrono but it's really low flash out of my 2.5" 66 and Vihts published velocities are just flat impressive but they use a long test barrel. We'll see, I'm going to chrono in 6", 4", and 2.5" to see what it does.

 

[dennishoddy]

Yeah, I'd be happier with 1100fps. 850 killed deer, so I guess I shouldn't complain, but never the less, speed kills.
Seems when it comes to the Super redhawks, you can't load them too hot within reason, but everybody backs off the Smiths.

 

[poopgiggle]

Its all about the glut of old colt .45 still in grandpa's closet.

You're lucky. My grandpa is Christian Scientist so all he has is O'Doul's.

I'm one that sticks with what the "old reloaders" have used since the beginning of time, but the more I read about Vhitavoury, and how consistant it is, the more I want to try it.

FWIW, Old Reloaders have been using VV since the beginning of time. VV powder has killed plenty of moose and Russians over the years.

 

[dennishoddy]

You're lucky. My grandpa is Christian Scientist so all he has is O'Doul's.

Dang, forgot your the connisour of the malted beverage.



FWIW, Old Reloaders have been using VV since the beginning of time. VV powder has killed plenty of moose and Russians over the years.

Yeah, its been around for a long time too, but we didn't have access to it until after the cold war was settled.

 

[KurtM]

Well not to put too fine a point on it, I do believe that 40 grains of Black Powder (triple F) is about what the "Old Time" reloader,s used.
As for over pumping your S&W.....I wouldn't do that **** if I were you. 45 Colt is a pretty big case, and there isn't a whole lot of "meat" left in a Smith once bored out. He'll it only took 8 grains or so of clays and a 230 gr bullet to "raise the top strap" on a 625.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Yeah, I'd be happier with 1100fps. 850 killed deer, so I guess I shouldn't complain, but never the less, speed kills.
Seems when it comes to the Super redhawks, you can't load them too hot within reason, but everybody backs off the Smiths.

It kind of like...

K frame model 66 S&W compared to a Ruger GP100.

I only shoot 158 grain mag loads through mine because the lighter bullet magnum screamer loads purportedly crack their barrels and a steady diet of any magnums will shoot them loose.
I'll shoot any amount of full house magnums of any bullet weight through my GP100 and not worry one whit. It's built like a tank in comparison.

The N Frame will take the same high pressure loads, but the question is how many of them? The Super Redhawk is built super stout. Seems to be that way across the board with Ruger handguns. Sort of like comparing a F150 truck to a Corvette sort of.

 

[dennishoddy]

I like that analogy, and agree completely.

 

[KurtM]

Ok Denis I finally had a moment and measured my old Colt Single action A first gen and a second gen Colt single action,s cylinder wall thickness at it,s thinnest point. I also measured a S&W 25 in 45 ACP,s wall thickness....yeah I know not quite the same, but if anything the S&W should be a bit thicker and it was by .015 of an inch. The S&W ran right around .075 and BOTH Colts were right at .060...... so like I said before, I am not sure I would pressure up a S&W on .015 more wall thickness than the "weak" Colt pistols. Just an F.Y.I.

 

[Scott Hearn]

Ok Denis I finally had a moment and measured my old Colt Single action A first gen and a second gen Colt single action,s cylinder wall thickness at it,s thinnest point. I also measured a S&W 25 in 45 ACP,s wall thickness....yeah I know not quite the same, but if anything the S&W should be a bit thicker and it was by .015 of an inch. The S&W ran right around .075 and BOTH Colts were right at .060...... so like I said before, I am not sure I would pressure up a S&W on .015 more wall thickness than the "weak" Colt pistols. Just an F.Y.I.

Kurt thanks for posting this! I just learned something. I just measured my 625 and it measures about .072. But there's more to the story.
The cylinder stop notch is milled into the side right on centerline of the chamber, so whatever that depth is has to be subtracted from this thickness since it's the thinnest part of the chamber. Now I know why S&W doesn't cut them deeper. I've always wondered why they didn't, it would help with notch peening. Now I know why, I had never really looked at it and measured anything.

Dennis what this means is that the N Frame 44 mags have a good bit more wall thickness under the cylinder stop notch (which is what really counts) than the .45s and it also explains why the old timers (like Elmer Keith) got away with loading .38 and .44 Specials so damn hot. They will take so much more pressure because there's more steel at this point. Very interesting.

It seems that if you really wanted to hot rod a S&W N Frame in a "big bore" caliber that one in 10mm would be the one that you would want. Now why did they quit making them? Oh yea...They built the X frame.

 

[Eric long]

DECEMBER 11, 2011| RUGER REDHAWK IGNITION PROBLEMSâ€" The Ruger Redhawk is the finest big-bore heavy-duty revolver available, combining the capacity for ultra big-bore calibers and sensible size. The great N-frame S&W, despite its refinement, grace and periodic updates over the years, simply isn't large enough or tough enough to handle the heavy .45 loads or the .475 and .500 Linebaugh rounds. The X-frame S&W is simply not a serious revolver due to extreme physical dimensions and weight. For all of its utility, however, the Redhawk has a Achilles heel in the form of weak ignition due to its unique main/trigger spring arrangement, firing pins and the transfer bar safety system. It is not unknown for box-stock, brand new guns to suffer from weak ignition in certain circumstances, even with factory ammunition. For a gun that is often carried afield as not only a primary hunting weapon but a back-up gun, this is a serious shortcoming and must be addressed.

This is a comment from Hamilton Bowen. It concerns a problem with the Redhawk but has a smidgen of info on the N frame Smith being discussed above.... That's why the reloading manuals have different loads for different revolvers.

 

[No.343]

One of the main differences between the Ruger and S&W that contributes to Ruger's strength is the location of the stop notch. On the S&W the notch is on the chamber wall. On the Ruger the notch is in the area between the chambers. As a result there is more metal on the side of the chambers in a Ruger.