FELONY for sale!

Avtomat-Acolyte · Dec 24, 2013

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2486415/charleston-south-carolina-handguns-for-sale--cobray-mac-11

This guy bought a MAC-11 pistol.... and then attached a shoulder stock and a pistol grip.

Then he took pictures of it.

Then he posted the pictures on the Internet.

Then he put his phone number and city.

If I didn't want to open myself up to harassment by resentful, passive-aggresive, ignorant jack-wagons I would text him right now and tell him to take the buttstock off and remove the listing from Armslist before anything life-changing happens to him.

As it stands... here it is for everyone's own cringe-worthy amusement.

11B3XCIB · Dec 25, 2013

As of 1220am, it's still up.

Geez, man. This dude is going to get lit up.

craigp · Dec 25, 2013

And a quick Google search of his phone number gives you his address and name. Some people just have no sense.

mark_b · Dec 25, 2013

It must be the thing to do around the holidays, here is a similar one for sale in Rock Hill

http://www.armslist.com/posts/2430144/r ... ault-rifle

I hope no one innocent gets caught up in this....

11B3XCIB · Dec 25, 2013

I think the 16" barrel on that second one precludes it from a shoulder stock restriction and makes it legal.

Midnight Raver · Dec 25, 2013

Wow, begging for trouble- oh well, some entertainment for us to watch now! :mrgreen:

TheSwampFox · Dec 25, 2013

It would not surprise me in the least if the person who posted that was a govt agent trying to drum up business. Sounds like the kind of tactics they use these days.

mark_b · Dec 25, 2013

From what I understand you can convert from a pistol to rifle. The question I see coming up from the ATF is that he is also selling the pistol barrel along with it. That brings up the murky territory of constructive intent.

Too risky for me, smells like a ATF trap. I guess they have spare time on their hands since they are not running guns across the border anymore.

armaborealis · Dec 25, 2013

Meh, I would personally vote "NOT GUILTY" if ever on a jury for any NFA SBR violation. I can't see myself being able to sleep soundly after helping enforce that law. Which is why I'll never be on a jury.

That said, I'd wager a PMAG that the post is an ATF agent looking to entrap someone. I guess there are some doofuses out there that inadvertently manufacture SBRs without a stamp but it seems far more likely that ATF figured it'd be easier to entrap someone on armslist than to actually hunt gang bangers.

PapaBear · Dec 25, 2013

Wouldn't that be entrapment if it was a gov agency doing it?

Is the common citizen just "supposed" to know the law? I know ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but this just seems like someone who doesn't know what they have done.

TheSwampFox · Dec 25, 2013

PapaBear said:
Wouldn't that be entrapment if it was a gov agency doing it?

Entrapment?

Like when cops arrest people for buying drugs they sell them?

Or when lady officers stand on the street corner and arrest men for asking for sex?

Or when feds find find an angry kid at a mosque and convince him to wear fake bomb underwear on a plane?

You're right our govt would never do that. :roll:

armaborealis · Dec 25, 2013

PapaBear said:
Wouldn't that be entrapment if it was a gov agency doing it?

No. At best, if you are entrapped it can be an affirmative defense you trot out at trial. LE at all levels entraps people all the time.

PapaBear said:
Is the common citizen just "supposed" to know the law? I know ignorance of the law is not an excuse, but this just seems like someone who doesn't know what they have done.

Yes. Specifically with the NFA, violations are "strict liability." They require no criminal intent much less knowledge of the law to prove guilt and thus "earn" a ten year stay in Club Fed. When combined with the theory of constructive possession, the average citizen is pretty much F'd if the ATF decides to go after them. This is the agency that has previously ruled that simultaneous possession of a semiautomatic firearm and a string was constructive possession of a machine gun. :roll:

This book is a good eye-opening read: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Felonies-Da ... 1594035229

If you're like most Americans, you likely committed a felony or three this week.

I personally feel that the erosion of "mens rea" (a guilty mind or criminal intent) as one of the elements of a crime is a serious problem. In my opinion, if there is no mens rea or gross negligence, then civil charges (i.e. a lawsuit for money) are far more suitable than criminal charges, much less a felony.

Tigerstripe · Dec 26, 2013

are we sure its illegal?

mac-10s and 11s come with a colapsable stock dont they? would that make one an SBR?

mark_b · Dec 26, 2013

If it came from the factory with a barrel 16" or more, the collapsible stock is OK, that is no different legally than an AR15 with a collapsible stock. If you change the barrel out to the 6" barrel, you have made a SBR.

If it came from the factory with the 6" barrel, you cannot add the stock to it, that would make it a SBR too.

In general shortening barrels on rifles or adding stocks to pistols is a no no.

bigfutz · Dec 26, 2013

I can hear it now, "See! Illegal guns for sale on the Internet!" It's either:
1) an idiot that doesn't know better; 2) a sting; 3) a conspiracy.

armaborealis · Dec 26, 2013

bigfutz said:
I can hear it now, "See! Illegal guns for sale on the Internet!" It's either:
1) an idiot that doesn't know better; 2) a sting; 3) a conspiracy.

Could be all three.

Could be an incompetent ATF agent running guns to gangbangers so they can be used in violent crimes so as to create headlines and a body count in a conspiracy to attack the second Amendment.

Like, oh, I don't know... Fast and Furious.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATF_gunwalking_scandal

jfeenin · Dec 28, 2013

Sent to me by a relative in NY, related perhaps? http://gunssavelives.net/news/cops-in-n ... rs-maybe/#

Avtomat-Acolyte · Dec 28, 2013

jfeenin said:
Sent to me by a relative in NY, related perhaps? http://gunssavelives.net/news/cops-in-n ... rs-maybe/#

Well, to be fair, cops from New York were going to other states and illegally purchasing and smuggling guns. You can't really use the actions of evil cities' police as anything beyond evidence of why that particular city is evil.

I'm pretty certain that Summerville cops and surrounding areas don't give a damn about creating a database of gun owners for a future scenario of "round up the guns."

TheSwampFox · Dec 28, 2013

Avtomat-Acolyte said:
I'm pretty certain that Summerville cops and surrounding areas don't give a damn about creating a database of gun owners for a future scenario of "round up the guns."

I wouldn't trust a city like Charleston considering the mayor is a member of Bloombergs MAIG and the police chief came out in support of the failed gun control measures that were proposed this past year. Don't under estimate what these people will do to keep the federal money flowing to their department and don't put it past this administration to use that money to control local law enforcement.