Want to get opinions here. So in the news is a man who shot two thugs who broke into his home. He got arrested for having a handgun as a convicted felon. So here are a few questions I have on the matter. If he did his time should he be allowed to own weapons to defend himself and family again? What about stipulations such as one weapon that is mandatory registered? Only for certain felonies? Thoughts?
Fellons and Guns
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Avtomat-Acolyte
Well-Known Fanatic
I've interacted with thousands of felons and physically fought dozens over a decade of law enforcement.
If someone can't be trusted with a gun then they can't be trusted with a knife, car, or bleach + ammonia.
If that is the case then they should live in prison.
Any person that thinks basic human rights, civil rights, or the like, only belong to certain segments of society are a threat to liberty and are the literal enemy of all free men.
Anyone not living in prison should be able to own whatever they want, since they are "free" and "trustworthy."
If someone can't be trusted with a gun then they can't be trusted with a knife, car, or bleach + ammonia.
If that is the case then they should live in prison.
Any person that thinks basic human rights, civil rights, or the like, only belong to certain segments of society are a threat to liberty and are the literal enemy of all free men.
Anyone not living in prison should be able to own whatever they want, since they are "free" and "trustworthy."
bigfutz
Well-Known Fanatic
I agree, with respect to felons and the mentally ill; if they are too dangerous to be trusted with a gun, they should be removed from society. The solution to our crime problem is more prisons and longer sentences. What percent of crimes are committed by repeat offenders?
rotarymike
Well-Known Fanatic
When the 'solution' is to imprison more people per capita than Communist China, the system is broken. To make matters worse, many (and more all the time) prisons are being privatized, so there is a profit motive for locking people up. And therefore, a profit to making more and more things crimes, and to punish them more harshly.
Face it - prisons just make poor criminals better criminals; it's a job skills seminar, networking event, and social club all at the same time. What disincentive is jail if all your friends and family are or were there too?
Thugs become thugs because they want money, girls, and respect, and they see no legitimate way to do so. The thug-life itself actually tends to pay less than minimum wage, but there's a safety net in, say, belonging to a gang. Read Freakonomics or The Death of Common Sense to see what actual science applied to criminal enterprise looks like (hint: a lot like pro athletics - very few make it to the Big Show).
I'd like to say the problem starts with primary-level educational funding, but I'm not an expert on that end of things. I do know that we don't teach kids that a criminal rap is a bar to success (look at Uncle Y the dealer - he is rolling in money and women!!). We don't teach them that jail is scary (though it is)... we teach them that they have more rights once they are in the criminal justice system than they did before. We'll happily let a poor homeless teen starve, but once he commits a crime it's 3 meals and a cot. Hell, if I were homeless and hopeless I would consider it.
Also, you can become a felon by writing a bad check over $1000. Should that person lose their 2A rights forever? Conversely, assault and battery is a misdemeanor. Beat the hell out of someone and no one will take your guns. Screw up some paperwork with the Feds, lose them forever. How does that make sense?
For imprisonment to work, there has to be a strong disincentive. So strong that folks with limited intelligence, education, and moral compasses can clearly see it. Otherwise, to a certain set of the population, jail is like your or I getting a speeding ticket - annoying and expensive, but otherwise not a huge deal. Without a serious impact, imprisonment doesn't work. So either we significantly up the punishments (that would be sharia law, folks - old testament stuff) or we remove the incentive to become a hoodlum in the first place. I'm not sure how to do that (if I was, I'd be running for office). But you need to supply-side manage the issue.
Face it - prisons just make poor criminals better criminals; it's a job skills seminar, networking event, and social club all at the same time. What disincentive is jail if all your friends and family are or were there too?
Thugs become thugs because they want money, girls, and respect, and they see no legitimate way to do so. The thug-life itself actually tends to pay less than minimum wage, but there's a safety net in, say, belonging to a gang. Read Freakonomics or The Death of Common Sense to see what actual science applied to criminal enterprise looks like (hint: a lot like pro athletics - very few make it to the Big Show).
I'd like to say the problem starts with primary-level educational funding, but I'm not an expert on that end of things. I do know that we don't teach kids that a criminal rap is a bar to success (look at Uncle Y the dealer - he is rolling in money and women!!). We don't teach them that jail is scary (though it is)... we teach them that they have more rights once they are in the criminal justice system than they did before. We'll happily let a poor homeless teen starve, but once he commits a crime it's 3 meals and a cot. Hell, if I were homeless and hopeless I would consider it.
Also, you can become a felon by writing a bad check over $1000. Should that person lose their 2A rights forever? Conversely, assault and battery is a misdemeanor. Beat the hell out of someone and no one will take your guns. Screw up some paperwork with the Feds, lose them forever. How does that make sense?
For imprisonment to work, there has to be a strong disincentive. So strong that folks with limited intelligence, education, and moral compasses can clearly see it. Otherwise, to a certain set of the population, jail is like your or I getting a speeding ticket - annoying and expensive, but otherwise not a huge deal. Without a serious impact, imprisonment doesn't work. So either we significantly up the punishments (that would be sharia law, folks - old testament stuff) or we remove the incentive to become a hoodlum in the first place. I'm not sure how to do that (if I was, I'd be running for office). But you need to supply-side manage the issue.
PCShogun
Well-Known Fanatic
Felons and Guns
If a felon was not jailed due to a violent crime, he/she should be able to petition the court to have their 2A rights restored as well as the right to vote. If they committed violence during the crime, then sorry, but no, they should not be allowed a second chance to do it again.
If a felon was not jailed due to a violent crime, he/she should be able to petition the court to have their 2A rights restored as well as the right to vote. If they committed violence during the crime, then sorry, but no, they should not be allowed a second chance to do it again.
Agreed. I listened to a speech the other day from Rand Paul. It wasn't exactly staying on the safe side but he stuck to his beliefs I guess. But he talked about getting felons back into society once their time was done. He talked about non-violent felons. I would like to see a President stand up for the blue collar worker who runs this country. I guess they think they got us in the bag but I assure you we are in danger of becoming a minority in the next 50 years if not sooner.
rotarymike
Well-Known Fanatic
Felons and Guns
I'm OK with felons (ie, those convicted of a felony) losing their 2A rights. Voting is a different issue.
What I'd like to see is a serious redefinition of what is a felony and what is a misdemeanor, and untying those terms from sentence lengths.
PCShogun said:
I'm OK with felons (ie, those convicted of a felony) losing their 2A rights. Voting is a different issue.
What I'd like to see is a serious redefinition of what is a felony and what is a misdemeanor, and untying those terms from sentence lengths.
Midnight Raver
Well-Known Fanatic
The worse thing is that in some places, people who haven't even been "convicted" of felonies or misdemeanors have been denied Firearms permits.
