DHS grabbing up 40 cal ammo

[bigfutz]

What's up with this?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...he-day-what-does-dhs-want-with-all-that-ammo/

they?ve just placed an order for 450 million rounds of fo-tay cal Federal Premium ammo over the next five years from ATK.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Makes sense to me if you think about it. Customs and Border Patrol carries a HK P2000 in .40 S&W, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement carries a Sig P229 in .40 S&W, Homeland Security Investigations carries a Sig P229 in .40 S&W, and the United States Coast Guard also carries a Sig P229 in .40 S&W. The only agency I can think of off the top of my head that doesn't is the Secret Service.

 

[JRiddle]

@Dirk, just curious...what does SS carry?

 

[bigfutz]

I'm pretty sure 357 SIG.

 

[PCShogun]

See, this is why I shoot Russian calibers. The price increases due to ammo scarcity will not affect me

 

[BenMara]

Yea its been an ongoin thing, all my friends that have gov, jobs are switching to 40s even glock is buyin back their 9mm issues

 

[Johnnyb]

Ehh, from the articles I have read, they were awarded with a contract "renewal" nothing new here.

 

[bigfutz]

Thanks, JohnnyB, for the sanity check.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

@Dirk, just curious...what does SS carry?

I'm pretty sure 357 SIG.

And the FN Five-seveN, why theey want it I don't know...

 

[bigfutz]

Both would indicate to my uneducated eye they are looking for flatter trajectory for longer range shots. Hence the "Long Range Glock"
http://www.glock.com/english/glock31.htm

Or maybe they are just fond of these cute little rounds.

 

[HOLY DIVER]

Both would indicate to my uneducated eye they are looking for flatter trajectory for longer range shots. Hence the "Long Range Glock"
http://www.glock.com/english/glock31.htm

Or maybe they are just fond of these cute little rounds.

i thought the 5-7 was developed because it will penatrate bullet proof vests?

 

[bigfutz]

Now I KNOW you've been buying in to the propaganda. Yeah, I heard also that they are calling HP's cop killers, and that normal people only carry FMJ.

 

[Dirk Pitt]

Uh ya, I'm pretty sure it was oringally developed as a subgun and pistol round that could penetrate body armor...

From Handguns Magazine

5.7x28mm
In the 1980s, lightweight personal body armor was becoming more prevalent among Soviet units. While these flak jackets were easily penetrated by rifle fire, they were able to defeat 9x19mm ball rounds. So there was growing concern over NATO?s 9x19mm weapons being rendered obsolete. Fabrique Nationale recognized this threat and began working on a solution in the 1980s, an effort that picked up steam when NATO established the CRISAT target--a 1.6mm titanium plate and 20 Kevlar folds--as a penetration standard. FN responded with a small-caliber, high-velocity cartridge called the 5.7x28mm.

A small bottlenecked cartridge with a 28mm-long case, it?s topped with a .224-inch-diameter projectile. The standard military SS190 ball loading features a 31-grain armor-piercing FMJ-BT projectile, and there are tracer, subsonic and practice rounds, too--as well as commercial 40-grain sporting ammunition (SS196 and SS197). (Editor?s note: FN and ATK, parent of Federal Cartridge, recently signed a distribution agreement under which ATK would become the exclusive distributor of commercial sporting ammo in the U.S.; the restricted law enforcement and military ammunition remains an FNH USA product.)

The cartridge?s overall length is 40.5mm, and it weighs half what a 9x19mm cartridge does. To cut through soft body armor, the .224-diameter SS190 projectile incorporates a cone-shaped steel penetrator sitting atop an aluminum core surrounded by a steel jacket.

Velocity of the 5.7x28mm SS190 ball load from a P90 PDW?s 10.2-inch barrel is 2,346 fps. Fired from an FN Five-seveN service pistol it still clocks a respectable 2,133 fps. Despite the high muzzle velocity, recoil is approximately 30 percent less than a 9x19mm. The 5.7x28mm is capable of defeating the CRISAT target at 200 meters.

http://webcitation.org/5rzTMO60b

 

[bigfutz]

Here's an unconfirmed web snippet explaining why supposedly 5.7 ammo is only available in HP:

The ammo companies voluntarily stopped selling them [FMJ's] to civilians before the politicians had the opportunity to make them illegal after the liberal media frenzy sensationalized the pistol as capable of piercing bullet proof vests.

 

[fiundagner]

I have been hearing about his contract since Friday, but my internet / computer has been in and out. Has anyone thought about these levels? They sound like a lot of ammo, until you think about a few things. First, this is a 4 year contract, so it?s only about 90 million rounds a year. Also, most of this ammunition is probably used for training purposes.

Back in the day they always had federal agents train with, and qualify with, whatever they would be carrying in their firearms. There is a measurable difference in performance between hollow point ammunition and ball ammunition. And in close quarters situations, where civilians may be in the line of fire, you want to make sure that round hits where the agent thinks I will hit.

My understanding is that back in the days of the original air marshal program (today?s program is a joke compared to the original program) air marshals were required to shoot a 100 round qualification course, with a 95% (?) score (it has been awhile since I talked to some of the original people in the program, so my memory is a little fuzzy) . The course included targets from 5 ft to the length of the airplane, and included both occluded targets (targets behind seats or other obstructions) and hostage targets (targets with a human shield). When you are shooting those ranges, the difference in ballistic preformance between hollow point and FMJ / Ball is very important.

Again, 90 million rounds sound excessive, with only ?around 200,000? agents in the program, until you do the math. That is only 450 rounds per agent, per year, for training and qualification. Even you figure that all the agents are not required to carry weapons (in the military only about 1 in 10 people is actually a combat soldier, but all of them are required to qualify with their weapons at least once a year) that is still a very limited amount of ammunition for training and qualification.

How many of us shoot more than that at shootzenfest alone, let alone all the other times we go to the range during the year? How many of us have more than 450 rounds sitting around our house for our assorted firearms? While there is a major difference between the two I would like to point out they sell .22 ammo in brcks ranging from 50 ? 550 rounds. And how easy is it to burn through a brick of 22?

Recently my wife bought a brand new handgun, so shiny it had only had the factory test rounds through it, and was told that to really break it in she needed to put about 500 rounds through it. That alone is more than the yearly allotment per agent in this ammo contract.

So yes, it sounds like a huge, massive, run for the hills the gubbermint is coming to take over amount (yes, I have heard that tossed around a lot lately), until you do the math.