Constitutional Carry Update?

[MCA]

Curious if anyone (John C.?) knows where this stands right now?

My wife and her co-worker want to start carrying and I would hate for them to have to pay the $150.00, go through that silly class and wait 3-4 months for a "permit" if this bill is going to pass sometime soon.

Thanks, in advance, for any replies.

 

[Paco]

I'd still get the permit regardless of them passing the law or not.
It have reciprocity with other states, and allows you to bypass the NICS call when filling out a 4473.

 

[MCA]

Great points Paco. Thanks! I didn't even think of it that way. Off to class she goes...

Cheers to a nice weekend and thank you for your reply.

 

[joenmell]

P.S. There is no such thing as a "silly class" when it comes to the safety and handling of firearms.
Call B.E.L.T. Training, they have a wonderful class and work well with the women on training and certifications.
Thanks,

 

[FunkyMonkey]

I'd still get the permit regardless of them passing the law or not.
It have reciprocity with other states, and allows you to bypass the NICS call when filling out a 4473.

Never heard of this. I'm pretty sure you still have a background check with each purchase. Do you have a source?

OP: get the permits. Constitutional carry would be great, but I wouldn't count on it anytime soon, for a variety of reasons.

Canuck: any thoughts or updates?

 

[category4]

I don't know about SC, but in GA there is no background check if you present your CWP at the time of purchase.

 

[John Canuck]

Everything I know is located here --> http://scgunblog.com/Current_Legislatio ... irect=true

I'll update that list when I get more info. Don't miss the blog on the home page either

As to the silly training course... agreed. It was an absolute waste of time. That $150 would be much better spent in an actual handgun course as opposed to the half assed BS that is required to get a CWP.

In SC, you must fill out a 4473 when you purchase a gun. If you have a CWP, they file it in their book and you move along. If you don't have a CWP, they call the NICS center, then you move along.

I have mixed feelings on the chances of this bill passing, so I would take the silly class and get the silly permit. Lots of crimes are possible between now and when SC actually recognizes the 2A again.

 

[Acecool]

My NH cwp is up for renewal at the end of this month, and I'm considering letting it slide partly because of this proposed bill and partly because they doubled the fee!!! I may just try for a Utah permit, which is around the $50 mark and gets me 3 or 4 more states.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

P.S. There is no such thing as a "silly class" when it comes to the safety and handling of firearms.
Call B.E.L.T. Training, they have a wonderful class and work well with the women on training and certifications.
Thanks,

Gun safety I agree with you .... But having to get a permission slip from the government to do something that was already given to us in the bill of rights....well isn't silly but down right stupid.

 

[Rosea Carpa]

I'd still get the permit regardless of them passing the law or not.
It have reciprocity with other states, and allows you to bypass the NICS call when filling out a 4473.

Never heard of this. I'm pretty sure you still have a background check with each purchase.

Nope once you have a C.W.P. you have already passed a far more Thorough background check than nics so you get to pass on that one.

 

[wylie]

I agree you shouldn't need a permission slip to carry a gun. But anybody who thinks this is a silly little class to take in order to carry a gun, They must think they are a know it all and they must think that everybody else is I know it all. There are people who take this class who have never handled a firearm in their life and they seem to think that if they (think) the gun is empty it is okay to point at people, or they think if the safety is on the gun is safe to point at people. Or they might not be able to hit a 5 foot circle 10 feet away could you imagine them using a gun in self-defense in a crowd of people. I am sorry but some people need this class. It's a basic safety and proficiency class. And without these classes you are going to have more gun related accidents and the end result is you will be losing more second amendment rights because of this. Should people take more advanced classes yes, And if you can take an advanced class and still get that piece of paper so you can get that license the better it is for you, and having reciprocity in other states is also great having that license. I am 62 have been shooting 50 something years never had an accident but I would still take any class I can get to better myself. And please excuse my typing I didn't take a class for that

 

[John Canuck]

Tell us who teaches all the people what to do and how to do it in states where no course, class or permission slip is required in order to exercise an inalienable, enumerated right. Half of the country allows for non government trained citizens to lawfully carry a gun. In many states, a person can go into a gun store, buy a gun, some bullets, a holster strap it all on and walk out openly carrying without permission from the man?

Every time someone shows up, insults others by calling them know-it-alls and says people need this dumb course to figure out how to carry a gun, I ask the same question. Are people in other states smarter and able to figure this out without the hand holding required by South Carolinian's? Somehow I doubt this. How is it possible. Yes it's a serious question.

I bet this lady is really impressed with the class she took. She still wasn't able to enjoy her right to bear arms after the instructor shot her.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/201202 ... /202191029

And without these classes you are going to have more gun related accidents and the end result is you will be losing more second amendment rights because of this.

While we are at it, please provide the statistics that show an increase in gun related accidents in free America where people carry guns without government training courses. I hate to break the news to you, but you don't have any "second amendment rights" in SC as long as you must ask the government for permission before you are allow to bear arms.

 

[wylie]

If you need statistics to see that people with no gun knowledge and who do not know gun safety are more at risk to have an accident, then I don't know what to say to you. And I doubt that you will find statistics with accidents describing whether a person took a gun safety class or not, they may mention whether they had a permit or not, I have yet to see an article about somebody cleaning their gun and it just went off and because they took a safety class it shouldn't have happened. If you think that knowledge about something pertaining to gun safety will not reduce accidents, for people who are a first time buyer of a gun and who have never handle a gun before in their life, then I guess I don't get it

 

[MCA]

Wow. I asked a simple question and Paco and John C were kind enough to answer it for me. Thank you gentlemen.

As for Wylie and Joenmell those are some pretty gross assumptions you are making from one "silly" word. How on earth do you know what I was referring to? My goodness it is knee jerk subjective reactions and assumptions like that which make me hesitate even posting simple questions sometimes.

I would extrapolate further but John Canuck and Rosea Carpa perfectly surmised my use of the word "silly". I also do not feel the need to expound on my personal beliefs about gun safety and safety classes. I would assume anyone that is a member of this forum is on the same page with that.

It is comments like joenmell's that state my wife, because she is a woman, needs "special" catering to in a gun class that is sexist, ignorant and offensive. Wylie's comment about being a "know it all" is equally offensive.

To the rest of you...thanks for your input and hope you all have a great weekend.

 

[John Canuck]

If you need statistics to see that people with no gun knowledge and who do not know gun safety are more at risk to have an accident, then I don't know what to say to you. And I doubt that you will find statistics with accidents describing whether a person took a gun safety class or not, they may mention whether they had a permit or not, I have yet to see an article about somebody cleaning their gun and it just went off and because they took a safety class it shouldn't have happened. If you think that knowledge about something pertaining to gun safety will not reduce accidents, for people who are a first time buyer of a gun and who have never handle a gun before in their life, then I guess I don't get it

I don't need anything. I'm not the one making claims without anything to back them up. I'll try to clear this up for you. When you make an assertion of something like it's a fact, be prepared to have someone say "hey, where did you get that piece of knowledge". You made a statement of something like it's a fact and I dispute it. You don't get to establish things as facts just by saying them... at least until you become the President

Let me break it down (quotations snipped for brevity). You said:

without these classes you are going to have more gun related accidents

From this statement, I assume you mean that without these classes you are going to have more gun related accidents. I disagree, so I said:

please provide the statistics that show an increase in gun related accidents in free America where people carry guns without government training courses.

Now, I'll make it even easier. Here is a list of states that don't require a training class, permission slip or other government nannying to openly carry a gun in public:

Alaska, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, North Carolina and Vermont. There are another 15 or 16 that also don't require permits or training but these are the gold star states.

I asked for statistics that show an increase in gun related accidents (or gun related anything for that matter) where people carry guns without government training courses. Think about the request before furiously typing a reply. I didn't ask for statistics regarding people who haven't taken a course. I asked for statistics for states where the government doesn't require it.

Now, I'll return to my first question, and yes I expect an answer. Who trains the people in the states listed above where the government has no requirement for a training course or a permit to carry a gun?

 

[John Canuck]

It's on for Tuesday the 9th. Details here --> http://www.scgunblog.com/Home_Page.html

There are also other bills with updated info here --> http://www.scgunblog.com/Current_Legislation.php

 

[armaborealis]

If you need statistics to see that people with no gun knowledge and who do not know gun safety are more at risk to have an accident, then I don't know what to say to you. And I doubt that you will find statistics with accidents describing whether a person took a gun safety class or not, they may mention whether they had a permit or not, I have yet to see an article about somebody cleaning their gun and it just went off and because they took a safety class it shouldn't have happened. If you think that knowledge about something pertaining to gun safety will not reduce accidents, for people who are a first time buyer of a gun and who have never handle a gun before in their life, then I guess I don't get it

If you want to restrict a fundamental Constitutional right then you need to provide evidence that the restriction is justified. John Canuck doesn't need to justify why freedom is good.

So, let's look at some data. Alaska adopted Constitutional Carry in 2003, so we'll compare from 2003-2007 (last year data is available).
SOUTH CAROLINA: 0.49/100K. From 2003-2007 (last year data available), there were 106 accidental firearms fatalities in SC for a rate of 0.49 per 100K people.
ALASKA: 0.27/100K. In Alaska there were 9 accidental firearms fatalities for a rate of 0.27 per 100K people.
NATIONAL AVERAGE: 0.23/100K. The national average over that time frame was 0.23 per 100K people.

Obviously some of those fatalities are not related to carry in public (hunting accidents, accidents in the home, etc). Additionally there are other factors in play, like the percentage of people that own guns (although this wouldn't help SC... Alaska has one of the highest rates of gun ownership in the country...). However, it is not correct to claim that South Carolina's mandatory training requirements and crappy reciprocity rules result in a safer environment and fewer fatalities. South Carolina has double the national average when it comes to unintentional firearms deaths!

People who are responsible and safe will seek out training regardless and behave like adults. People who are idiots or negligent won't adopt life-changing habits in an 8 hr class. I agree that training is good and should be made available at low cost. Heck I'd love to see basic firearms safety taught in schools because basic safety training does seem effective in reducing mortality over time in large populations. I have seen no evidence to suggest that increased training requirements reduces accidental deaths due to concealed carry, probably because the number of such deaths is nearly zero to start with even in unrestricted states.

Data available at the CDC WISQARS page: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

 

[Rosea Carpa]

People who are responsible and safe will seek out training regardless and behave like adults. People who are idiots or negligent won't adopt life-changing habits in an 8 hr class. I agree that training is good and should be made available at low cost. Heck I'd love to see basic firearms safety taught in schools because basic safety training does seem effective in reducing mortality over time in large populations. I have seen no evidence to suggest that increased training requirements reduces accidental deaths due to concealed carry, probably because the number of such deaths is nearly zero to start with even in unrestricted states.

Data available at the CDC WISQARS page: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_sy.html

That was my point as well basic firearms safety...heck I had a class on that in 8 th grade. " hunter safety". And as you said idiots won't adopt new ways of life in a 8 hour class.

 

[MCA]

Great post armaborealis. Thanks for taking the time to do so.

 

[Lupinus]

So why stop there Wylie?

If the whole reason is "WOW, you're stupid, you could hurt someone with that thing!" Why not require a class just to own a firearm in the first place?