Can it happen again?

Podman · May 12, 2014

Rare Film From 1932. Can It Happen Again?

FANTASTIC NEWS VIDEO: 1932 - young Patton, young Eisenhower,
young MacArthur, Pres.Hoover, Walter Winchell reporting. I don't
recall this from any history classes. Do you think our military,
acting on orders from a broken Federal Gov't, will NOT march against our own citizens??
Think what you want to, but THIS DID HAPPEN only a couple of generations ago.

Hard to believe but it was only 80 years ago!

[SIZE=10pt]http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?feature=player_embedded&v=sNOsIB5VMSQ[/SIZE]

jtischauser · May 12, 2014

Yikes!

dennishoddy · May 12, 2014

Clearly a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, unless they were re-assigned to National Guard status.

jtischauser · May 12, 2014

What is the posse comitatus act of 1878?

dennishoddy · May 12, 2014

Its Illegal for Regular military to enforce state laws within the confines of the US. The Coast Guard is exempt.

It does not apply to the National guard that can be used to enforce state law within the borders of their home state, unless invited by a governor of another state to help there.

(Oklahoma National Guard was asked for help during Katrina in New Orleans.)

Edit: I did find there is an exception written into the Posse Comitatus Act. Interesting.

An exception to Posse Comitatus Act, derived from the Enforcement Acts, allowed President Eisenhower to send federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas, during the 1958 school desegregation crisis. The Enforcement Acts, among other powers, allow the President to call up military forces when state authorities are either unable or unwilling to suppress violence that is in opposition to the constitutional rights of the people

Ipsilateral · May 12, 2014

The link won't open for me, is this about the bonus army suppression with troops?

dennishoddy · May 12, 2014

It is

JHenderson said:
The link won't open for me, is this about the bonus army suppression with troops?

Yes.

rawhide1 · May 12, 2014

While Hoover's use of the military against the Bonus Army was a political blunder as well as scary that that could happen, the use of federal troops in this instance is probably not an illegal act because the action took place in the District of Columbia, not a state.

rawhide1 · May 12, 2014

dennishoddy said:
Its Illegal for Regular military to enforce state laws within the confines of the US. The Coast Guard is exempt.

It does not apply to the National guard that can be used to enforce state law within the borders of their home state, unless invited by a governor of another state to help there.

(Oklahoma National Guard was asked for help during Katrina in New Orleans.)

Edit: I did find there is an exception written into the Posse Comitatus Act. Interesting.

An exception to Posse Comitatus Act, derived from the Enforcement Acts, allowed President Eisenhower to send federal troops into Little Rock, Arkansas, during the 1958 school desegregation crisis. The Enforcement Acts, among other powers, allow the President to call up military forces when state authorities are either unable or unwilling to suppress violence that is in opposition to the constitutional rights of the people

Ike also federalized the Arkansas National Guard because Governor Faubus used them to prevent integration. Additionally, the mayor of Little Rock communicated to Eisenhower that he was open to federal intervention and local police would support it.

dennishoddy · May 13, 2014

rawhide said:
Ike also federalized the Arkansas National Guard because Governor Faubus used them to prevent integration. Additionally, the mayor of Little Rock communicated to Eisenhower that he was open to federal intervention and local police would support it.

Its still a violation. The Mayors don't have the powers to justify federal intervention. Governors have the power, not mayors.

Yes, I know it happened. Its not legal though.

Who is going to enforce it?

Josh Beauchamp · May 13, 2014

dennishoddy said:
Its still a violation. The Mayors don't have the powers to justify federal intervention. Governors have the power, not mayors.

Yes, I know it happened. Its not legal though.

Who is going to enforce it?

In that particular instance The Mayor of Little Rock requested federal assistance. The Governor of Arkansas was totally against desegregation and like it has been stated attempted to use the Guard to block the desegregation attempts contrary to law.

rawhide1 · May 14, 2014

dennishoddy said:
Its still a violation. The Mayors don't have the powers to justify federal intervention. Governors have the power, not mayors.

Yes, I know it happened. Its not legal though.

Who is going to enforce it?

Eisenhower didn't send troops at the request of the mayor although the mayor's telegrams may have influenced him, but because he believed he had a duty to uphold the law and the decision of the Supreme Court under Article IV, section 4 and the 14th Amendment.

Back to the original topic of Hoover's use of the army against the WWI veterans. Hoover acted in a federal district at the request of the D.C. Commission. I have read that Hoover sent orders to MacArthur to not pursue the marchers into their main camp on Anacostia Flats but MacArthur ignored the order.

While I don't think there's any question the Founders would frown on the use of the military against it's own citizens as though they are subjects, Article IV clearly states the U.S. government has a responsibility to defend against domestic violence.