C&R License

[jgodfrey]

Does anyone on here have a C&R license? I'm thinking of getting one and would like to know the pros and cons.

 

[Stan in SC]

I had one from 2003 until last December.It was handy for having milsurp guns shipped directly to me when I was collecting milsurps.Some large distributors such as Midway give you a discount on shooting and reloading stuff.I let it expire since I had not used it in 5 years.Just depends on what you want it for.

Stan in SC

 

[mcdaniel]

I have one. I like it, It allows me to collect without transfer fees. Generally speaking the first purchase you make will pay for the licence,from then its just savings.

 

[jgodfrey]

Thanks for the advice. I have mailed the application. Do you know where to find a good list of sites that discount ammo and supplies for c&r? Or to find surplus firearms?

 

[Dave29461]

This is an older list but it is fairly complete.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_14/1...st___UPDATE_11_08_08_at_Bottom_of_Page_3.html

 

[PCShogun]

That's a good list.

Things to remember.

1)DO NOT SIGN the original C&R
2) Make many copies.
3) Sign copies in Blue ink.
4) Mail a copy to every place you think you might do business, with a letter asking them to keep a copy on file for you.
5) Keep a few copies in a binder and take it with you when you go out of state. It will allow you to purchase C&R items in states you might not be able to normally.
6) Tell ATP that you have a C&R and they will look at you like you are a turd they just stepped in. Not sure why they treated me this way, but they did, and I now rarely purchase from them.

 

[mcdaniel]

Most places take them by fax as well, so just get a list of fax numbers and it won't take but a minute to get them to a bunch of people.

 

[jgodfrey]

Thanks for the info and advice. The money was taken from my account today, so BATF has the paperwork. Let's see how long it takes to get the license.

 

[Nagao]

I use mine constantly to buy from private sellers listing on local ads across the country. You would be surprised at how willing most people are to ship for an extra $30 on their asking price.

 

[armaborealis]

I have mine...

PROS
- Get C&R items mailed to your door.
- CMP accepts it.
- Get the "dealer price" or dealer discount with Midway and other online shooting sports retailers on all sorts of stuff, saving you significant money.
- FEDEX (and some truculant UPS managers, although UPS is generally better) usually has no problem mailing a handgun to an FFL. They don't care what kind of FFL it is.
- You can acquire handguns across state lines. This has been useful for me in acquiring items for my collection I otherwise could not have when traveling on other business. Its also handy because there are some decent defensive handguns on the list, so if nothing else, you can always count on being able to pick up a CZ-82 in just about any free state if you otherwise couldn't transport one with you and you felt the need.

CONS
- Costs some money.
- Must carefully review the rules and follow them, including keeping a bound book and never ever profiting off of your personal collection.
- Must keep ATF updated on your address.
- Must theoretically allow ATF to inspect your collection annually, but I've never heard of anyone getting an inspection.
- Must keep local law enforcement aware of your address. I'd be worries that some counties in SC are unknowledgeable and might think you are running a business and may be tempted to come after you for taxes or business licensing fees.

All in all I've found it worthwhile.

 

[jgodfrey]

So in the "bound book," do I need to log everything I buy and trade or just C&R guns? In other words, If I buy my neighbor's Glock and trade it to my dad for a newer Smith revolver, then sell the Smith and use the money to buy a Garand, do I list all three guns in the bound book or just the Garand? Do I have to inventory my existing collection? And again, Thanks for all the great help!

 

[armaborealis]

As I understand the terms of the C&R, any item on the C&R-eligible list goes into the bound book. Any item not on the C&R list does not. So, a CZ82 would get logged. A glock would not (unless it was a curio, say, a particularly famous gun or something bizarre).

I would log any C&R-eligible firearm even if you don't use your C&R FFL to acquire it. For example, say you go to a gun shop in SC and buy a Mosin Nagant (C&R eligible) and don't use your FFL -- you just get a NICS check and walk out like normal after doing the 4473. I'd still log the acquisition.

 

[PCShogun]

I would log any C&R-eligible firearm even if you don't use your C&R FFL to acquire it. For example, say you go to a gun shop in SC and buy a Mosin Nagant (C&R eligible) and don't use your FFL -- you just get a NICS check and walk out like normal after doing the 4473. I'd still log the acquisition.

Correct, that is actually a requirement. Remember, you are logging the gun into your collection, you are not logging the purchase. If a gun leaves your possession for more than 24 hours, it must also be logged in the book, and then back in when it is returned.

 

[rotarymike]

Where is that requirement? I looked through all the regs BATFE sent me with my C&R and to me it reads that any firearm I use my C&R to obtain, must be logged. Firearms NOT purchased through the C&R should not need to be logged. Not being argumentative here, I'd like a reference to the requirement.

Reason I ask - when I got my C&R I had already had a Mauser for a while. Asked BATFE whether it needed to be logged or not (it was bought on a normal 4473) and they said no, that my 'collection' started when I got the C&R and only applied to C&R guns bought with the license.

 

[Dave29461]

That was my understanding, as well, Mlke.

 

[jgodfrey]

License came today. Not bad since I mailed it May 13. Much faster than a CWP!

 

[armaborealis]

Where is that requirement? I looked through all the regs BATFE sent me with my C&R and to me it reads that any firearm I use my C&R to obtain, must be logged. Firearms NOT purchased through the C&R should not need to be logged. Not being argumentative here, I'd like a reference to the requirement.

Reason I ask - when I got my C&R I had already had a Mauser for a while. Asked BATFE whether it needed to be logged or not (it was bought on a normal 4473) and they said no, that my 'collection' started when I got the C&R and only applied to C&R guns bought with the license.

My paperwork from ATF("Open Letter" dated 19 Jan 2005) states: "Licensed collectors MUST... "enter into the a/d (acquisition and disposition record) all curios and relics acquired after receipt of the Collector's license."

There's also someone on another forum who claims to have a definitive answer in writing from ATF stating that yes, their position is that all C&R guns get logged whether you use the FFL03 to obtain them or not. Remember, the license applies to you as an individual, not to your firearms.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulle ... post567872

"To sum up your two questions, every licensed collector must enter all acquisition of C&R firearms into
their A&D records because the firearm is a curio or relic and will be part of their collection or
possession. This is required even if their Federal fierarms license was not used to acquire the
firearm (see 27 CFR 478.125(f) and 18 U.S.C 923(g)(2)). The regulations also require that the
licensee enter all the appropriate information whenever a C&R firearm is disposed."

You could also ask the local ATF branch for an answer in writing.