Bullet weights in the AR-15 5.56 cartridge.

Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
I have 2 Colt AR-15 A2s a H-BAR & the Sporter with 1-7 twist.
Both shoot the Military 55gr into a nice tight group at 100 yards
& blows out to 6 inches at 200 then 11" at 300 with a 4X scope.

With the SS109 62gr Green tip I get under 6" at 300.
A PPU 77gr BTHP shoots even better.

Both rifles are stock with factory barrels only an Acu-wedge
is used to take the slop up a bit.

Now a stock M1 shoots 4'" at 100 yards. So by tight group for the 55gr
rounds I mean under 4" at 100 yards.

Those of you who have stock ARs. What kind of results do you get with 55 & 62 grain bullets?
I see a big difference between 55 & 62 grains in the 5.56 cartridge in my 2 ARs.
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
So what is the difference in the 55gr & the 62 gr SS109 steel core penetrator?
It's the length of the projectile maybe not the 7 grain difference so.
It' not the weight that makes them different, I believe.

Any one shoot the Barns all copper bullets? A 55gr or 65gr bullet would be longer than a lead bullet &
require a 1-7" twist to work with the longer bearing surface.

Am I right?
 
CECannonJr

CECannonJr

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
3,428
Location
Eastern North Carolina
So what is the difference in the 55gr & the 62 gr SS109 steel core penetrator?
It's the length of the projectile maybe not the 7 grain difference so.
It' not the weight that makes them different, I believe.

Any one shoot the Barns all copper bullets? A 55gr or 65gr bullet would be longer than a lead bullet &
require a 1-7" twist to work with the longer bearing surface.

Am I right?
I see much better accuracy at longer ranges with the 62 grain bullet. The shape is certainly a key attribute. But, I think the weight has some influence too. The 55 grain bullet seems to become unstable at longer ranges. I think the 55 grain bullet is better suited for CQB. The 62 grain bullet is multi purpose and also good for CQB. I prefer the 62 grain bullet. My rifle will hold a 3 inch group at 150 yards shooting from a bench. The 55 grain bullet will double that.
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina

This shorty of a rifle bullet can scare the even the mighty M1As at 300 yards from an AR15. :eek:
I guess we would have to ask those Palma shooters to see how they get a short 155gr 30 cal bullet
to score all the way out to 1000 yards. I've had 168gr BTHPs go sideways way before 1000 yards for me.

To take a 52 grain shorty & get it on paper at 300 yards let alone get good scores amazes me.
Is it all about the Twist rate in my barrel? 1 in 7"
 
CECannonJr

CECannonJr

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
3,428
Location
Eastern North Carolina

This shorty of a rifle bullet can scare the even the mighty M1As at 300 yards from an AR15. :eek:
I guess we would have to ask those Palma shooters to see how they get a short 155gr 30 cal bullet
to score all the way out to 1000 yards. I've had 168gr BTHPs go sideways way before 1000 yards for me.

To take a 52 grain shorty & get it on paper at 300 yards let alone get good scores amazes me.
Is it all about the Twist rate in my barrel? 1 in 7"
The 1:7 twist is important for accuracy with lighter bullets. In fact, I would say it's a necessity. 1:8 or 1:9 helps with 75 or 77 grain bullet accuracy.
 
switchback

switchback

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
657
agreed that bullet weight and shape are importantly matched to twist rate of the barrel. I'd like to think my rifle length barrel is helping my groups at 2-300 yards. As I have only an aimpoint pro with no magnification, I don't often shoot at distance. I really need to get a carbine m4 , install the aimpoint on it and put a scope on the rifle length gun. At least the part of me that enjoys spending money would like to do that. I'm trying to be a better steward
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
agreed that bullet weight and shape are importantly matched to twist rate of the barrel. I'd like to think my rifle length barrel is helping my groups at 2-300 yards. As I have only an aimpoint pro with no magnification, I don't often shoot at distance. I really need to get a carbine m4 , install the aimpoint on it and put a scope on the rifle length gun. At least the part of me that enjoys spending money would like to do that. I'm trying to be a better steward

Do you hand load for the AR? I have only loaded the 77gr BTHP so far.
With neuropathy in my hands I just can't hold on to the little bitty Boolets.

What twist do you have?
 
switchback

switchback

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
657
the S&W carbine is 1/9 the ruger rifle is 1/8. the carbine has been shot a lot, the rifle not so much but I previously had the same model and a buddy wouldn't stop pestering me for it. Both shoot well, but as I posted above neither has a scope, red dots only.

No I haven't loaded for 5.56, too small of bullet, I don't like stepped cartridges, yada yada. But I have dies, powder, bullets and primers. You know just in case!!
 
Dub

Dub

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Messages
432
Picked up a few of these to try in AR-15's.








22 Caliber 77 Grain OTM Tactical


22101 22 Caliber 77 Grain OTM Tactical
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
I tried to copy & paste the dope sheet for the 77gr OT .224 but just get the 175 .30 cal URL.
So just go to their ballistic Calculator & put in any Berger bullet then print out the Dope sheet.
I use the 175gr 30cal Berger in my .308s with Vitivouri 130 powder or IMR 4064 in a Bolt & AA 2520 in the Gas rifles.

Got to try this one it looks exciting for long range 5.56 rounds.
 
Last edited:
Bender

Bender

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Mar 30, 2018
Messages
2,354
Location
Meh.........
With a 1:7 barrel, it will like heavier bullets

The ss109 62gr ammo is not very accurate. The steel cores are not able to be placed concentrically. This creates a instability, limiting accuracy and consistency.
 
Last edited:
B

BillBro68

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
95
The 1:7 twist is important for accuracy with lighter bullets. In fact, I would say it's a necessity. 1:8 or 1:9 helps with 75 or 77 grain bullet accuracy.

Is that right or is it the other way around? For heavier, longer bullets I was under the impression that one needs a faster twist to stabilize them. No? A 1/8 can get it done with 75 and 77s but not a 1/9.
 
B

BillBro68

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
95
The 1:7 twist is important for accuracy with lighter bullets. In fact, I would say it's a necessity. 1:8 or 1:9 helps with 75 or 77 grain bullet accuracy.

Is that right or is it the other way around? For heavier, longer bullets I was under the impression that one needs a faster twist to stabilize them. No? A 1/8 can get it done with 75 and 77s but not a 1/9
Picked up a few of these to try in AR-15's.








View attachment 8266


View attachment 8265
I did too. I hope we both see good things with these. I'm expecting alot from these. I'm gonna roll up on some known accuracy loads that my guns like using the 77gr SMKs, 24.8gr of 8208, 23.9gr of A2520 and 23.4gr of TAC
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
using the 77gr SMKs, 24.8gr of 8208, 23.9gr of A2520 and 23.4gr of TAC

I have used the AA 2520 in the 7.62 not yet in the 5.56 I have some AA2460 that I thought would work in the 5.56.

Have not tried 8208 however it sounds like a good powder for both the 5.56 & 7.62 rounds for maximum accuracy.
XBR is ideally suited for cartridges like the 223 Remington/5.56mm, 308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO and the 6mm PPC.

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/imr/imr-8208-xbr/quickview
 
joepistol

joepistol

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
732
Location
Rochester Hills, Mi
I've loaded my .223's & 5.56's with A/A2230 & 2460..but usually use 2460 for my 308's... tried 2520 in 308 & '06 too.
Too bad the Shooter's World powders are not available anymore, @ least not @ this time.
Tried their Blackout in 7.62 X39 & it works as well as A/A's 1680.. (maybe even better)
they had a bunch of new powders advertised, some for AR's in 223 /5.56 that I wanted to try.

I tried their Match Rifle & Precision Rifle powders in 308 & 30-06 and found it at least as good as any other powder I've us ed.

Their Clean Shot pistol powder works very well too. Too bad that I can't find it / them anymore.
Hopefully, the Shooters World line of powders will return to the market in the future.
 
B

BillBro68

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
May 19, 2021
Messages
95
Another great powder, for me and mine anyway, is Alliant Varmint. Superb velocity numbers and low SDs with the 62gr bullets I've loaded over it.
For heavies I really like 2520, ARComp, TAC and 8208. I have between 6 and 8 pounds of each. Really wish I had stocked up on the Varmint too but....
I originally got the Varmint for my 6.8SPC but the barrel didnt seem to like either that powder or that bullet (90gr Gold Dot) but I have added a new 6.8 barrel and will of course revisit Varmint with the new barrel. Either way I'll use it I'm sure. I have 500+ 62gr Gold Dots for the 5.56 guns plus about 400 each of the 62gr mk318 bullets, both mod 1 and 0. Between testing the new 6.8 barrel and the supplies of 62gr bullets for the 5.56 guns that will more than consume my supply of Varmint.
Another top tier 5.56 powder is the Vhitavuori n530 and n530. Screaming velocities and really good numbers along with the accuracy. Sadly I'm down to one pound of the 540, very sad.
 
CECannonJr

CECannonJr

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Jan 15, 2021
Messages
3,428
Location
Eastern North Carolina
Is that right or is it the other way around? For heavier, longer bullets I was under the impression that one needs a faster twist to stabilize them. No? A 1/8 can get it done with 75 and 77s but not a 1/9

I did too. I hope we both see good things with these. I'm expecting alot from these. I'm gonna roll up on some known accuracy loads that my guns like using the 77gr SMKs, 24.8gr of 8208, 23.9gr of A2520 and 23.4gr of TAC
You are correct, sir. I had it backwards....not the first time :eek:

Bullet Weight vs Twist Shooters Log
 
Mike A1

Mike A1

Well-Known Fanatic
Fanatic Family
Joined
Sep 18, 2018
Messages
2,605
Location
Western North Carolina
I've loaded my .223's & 5.56's with A/A2230 & 2460..but usually use 2460 for my 308's... tried 2520 in 308 & '06 too.
Too bad the Shooter's World powders are not available anymore, @ least not @ this time.
Tried their Blackout in 7.62 X39 & it works as well as A/A's 1680.. (maybe even better)
they had a bunch of new powders advertised, some for AR's in 223 /5.56 that I wanted to try.

I tried their Match Rifle & Precision Rifle powders in 308 & 30-06 and found it at least as good as any other powder I've us ed.

Their Clean Shot pistol powder works very well too. Too bad that I can't find it / them anymore.
Hopefully, the Shooters World line of powders will return to the market in the future.

I'm glad you mentioned AA 1680 a great Ball powder that needs a Magnum primer for winter use for the 7.62x39mm.
I learned this about this ball powder. After working up a load that grouped well in the summer, I decide to test it one last time
at a very cold 10 degrees at the range. The first shot form my Mini 30 was high by 7" inches & 4" to the right.

Of course I rushed back home & loaded 50 more with Magnum primers & went back out to the range to test them.
This time I got a decent group about twice the size of the summer groups of course it was cold as hell & yours truly could
have been cold as He!! ;)

We used AA 2520 for years for cold winters & hot summers & never noticed any problems with weather with this in the
7.62 using the #2200 168 BTHP. Odd how some powders act never tried Varget I hear this powder is very stable at may temps.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00034var1/hodgdon-varget-smokeless-powder-1-lb


Another top tier 5.56 powder is the Vhitavuori n530 and n530. Screaming velocities and really good numbers along with the accuracy. Sadly I'm down to one pound of the 540, very sad.

Vitavuori is another great powder only it's so clean burning we had a hard time seeing he muzzle flash from the flash suppressor, a sure way
a High power shooter is focusing on their front sight blade in slow fire prone.
 
Last edited:
joepistol

joepistol

Well-Known Fanatic
Joined
Apr 23, 2020
Messages
732
Location
Rochester Hills, Mi
Hand Loaders on my local gun forum (MGO . org) really like Varget and the Vhitavuori line of powders..those guys that are really into getting best accuracy, usually @ longer distances. I never shoot beyond 100yds., and can't shoot well enough to justify spending the extra cost for those powders. Both those I mentioned are considerably more expensive than the powders I usually use. I tried many of the Shooter's World powders when Midsouth first offered them for sale.
They had an intro sale, if you bought 4 # of powder, you got free Hazmat fee. I'm a sucker for a sale, & enjoy trying new brands of powder.
This is also how I got into using the Accurate Arms line of powders..way back in the 80's after I 'd been loading just a few yrs.
I had used Hercules Powders exclusively. ..Bullseye, Unique, Bluedot, Reddot, & 2400.
I switched from Hercules to A/A #2, 5, 7, & 9 for pistols, then 2230 & 2460 for most my rifle cals. as some retailer had an intro sale.
I tried their powders & liked how well they worked. Later, found 1680, when I started loading 7.62 X 39, & 2520 & a few slower rifle powders.
Used A/A powders for about 20 or so yrs. After retiring , I got adventuresome & started using HP-38, Titegroup, Clays, HS-6, H-110 and a few "new-to-me, rifle powders. Can you tell..? for many yrs. I shot mostly pistols.
 
Top