Bedding and Pillars/Long Range Shooting

[JRSherman]

Well guys, I hate to say it, but I think I'm through wading through the nonsense on our other main site, and I want to get down to learning more about just firearms. I'm going to be perfectly happy remaining ignorant(for the moment) about politics and the random crap stories that otherwise take up my time in the GD forum over there.

I want to take an active interest in, and better understand, long range precision shooting. I bought a used Savage 10FCP McMillan, and was told that the stock was not bedded, but that the owner wasn't sure it needed it either. I'm not going to lie, I had no idea what he was talking about, so I just nodded and "yeah'd" my way through the short sentence or two about it, finished up the deal, and started the 3 hour drive I was more worried over.

Question 1: What is bedding, in a somewhat easy explanation. Pictures help. . .hehe.

I looked it up a little and found a reference talking about laying fiberglass under the barrel, but not much else.

The same topic quickly changed to pillars, and I became just as easily lost.

Question 2: What are pillars?

I'd really like to understand all these things better, as I would like to merge the machinist course I am currently going to school for with a little personal gunsmithing in the future.

I'm going to try and gleam what I can off of other websites so I don't have to clog up this one. With this post, though, I am committing myself as a "gun internals dummy" in the hopes that a few others that might have the same questions will feel more able to come forward, that we all may learn.

Thanks,
J.R.

 

[mike cyrwus]

Bedding is where the action and sometimes barrel is secured in the stock, usually by means of epoxy/fiberglass and/or aluminum pillars. Im not a bolt action smith by any means really, so dont take this as gospel, but I thing that as long as the action is secure in the stock, and the barrel is "free-floating" out of the receiver, you should be fine. Savages Ive seen shoot lights out with freefloated barrels. You can check if its free floated by slipping a dollar bill around the bottom of the barrel and seeing if you can slide it between the barrel and stock forend all the way to the receiver without getting hung up.

The whole theory behind bedding is to give the metal parts repeatable consistency from shot to shot, and not provide any undue or inconsistent pressure to the barrel and or receiver, which can cause accuracy problems.
Do you need to worry about it? Answer it yourself by shooting it with good accurate ammo and seeing if youre happy with the precision and accuracy.

 

[JRSherman]

Thank you very much Mike. It'll take me a while to get to do any decent shooting.

I grew up hunting and around guns, but I'm just on the beginner's edge of understanding them and I want to know the in's and out's as well as becoming a proficient shooter.

Unfortunately with this rifle, I got a good deal on the rifle itself, but nothing with it, so I'm going to have to save up for some decent optics, ammo, etc, and I want to learn as much as I can while I'm saving up.

I appreciate your help, just be advised I'll probably be asking for more of it later!

J.R.

 

[pyplynr]

everything you need to know on "How to bed a bolt action rifle" http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1167022#Post1167022

 

[JRSherman]

Wow Pyplynr, thanks for the link! Read about half of it so far and will have to finish tomorrow.

 

[JRSherman]

Just a ETA for Pyplynr, thanks again. Finished reading through that thread and a few links off it and learned a lot! Appreciate the knowledge share from you and Mike!

 

[pyplynr]

anytime JRSherman. I'm a sucker for bolt actions. Simple and very accurate. If your really want to learn more about long range then the Snipershide forums are a great place to read a lot of good info. What optic are you planning on running on the 10fp?

 

[JRSherman]

I honestly don't know yet, as I need to learn more about them as well(mildot vs. MOA, and other features). Whatever it is, I plan on saving up and getting something decent. I have no problem undercutting myself a little on the rifle, but optics are something that I can transfer to another gun if I want to.

Although I have already seen how Steve Aryan feels about Counter-Sniper scopes, so I think I'll steer clear of them

 

[pyplynr]

yeah run far far away from counter sniper scopes. When you find out what optic you want try to find one that the reticle matches the turrets. I don't think in no way you undercut yourself on the rifle. Savages shoot very well right out of the box, and you already got one of the most sought after stocks on it.

 

[JRSherman]

Yeah I can't quite decide what I like better so far. I can do the ranging math easier on MOA, but adjustments and reading seems easier on Mil/Mil. Of course, this isn't real eyes looking, this was just playing around with that simulator at shooterready. I'll get my eyes on some real scopes sometime and figure it out better.

 

[ez bake]

Yeah I can't quite decide what I like better so far. I can do the ranging math easier on MOA, but adjustments and reading seems easier on Mil/Mil. Of course, this isn't real eyes looking, this was just playing around with that simulator at shooterready. I'll get my eyes on some real scopes sometime and figure it out better.

That ShooterReady simulator can save you some serious cash in the learning department (every trigger pull is free and not $.77-$1.20 ).

Mils and MOA are all about the math of angles (so much so, that you have to geek out about it a little for it to become really easy).

Here's a good guide to throw in the crapper and read when you just have a lot of time (like, after visiting Mexico and drinking the water):

http://www.mil-dot.com/Content%20Images/The_Derivation_of_the_Range_Estimation_Equations.pdf


Here's some "getting started" stuff:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=237232#Post237232


One of the trickiest parts of distance shooting (for me) is wind - here are some good articles on Wind reading/doping:

http://www.6mmbr.com/windreading.html

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/wind-doping-basics-1.php

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/reading-wind.php

 

[JRSherman]

Hey Thanks EZ, I had this post of yours up from OSA and lost it.

I've been looking at the "Through the Scope" pictures here(Sniper's Hide Through the Scope Picture Thread) and I've really been liking the Bushnell Elite 6-24X50, and the Leupold 6.5-20x50. The clarity in the pictures alone is pretty awesome, so I can just imagine how nice the scope is. For the price, I think I'll save for the Bushnell. It'll take me long enough to save for it, let alone wait that much longer for a Leupold or forever for a NightForce. Those seem to have some redonkulous clarity.

 

[jtischauser]

One of the trickiest parts of distance shooting (for me) is wind - here are some good articles on Wind reading/doping:

http://www.6mmbr.com/windreading.html

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/wind-doping-basics-1.php

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/reading-wind.php

I won't claim to know anything about real long range shooting but after shooting that Tiger Valley sniper match alongside Steve Aryan itches quite evidentbthst being able to quickly and accuraty read the wind was key to shooting out past 500. The 1000 yard shots were all wind. It was really cool to see Wade and Chris work together to get hits at the long ranges. I think I even helped Steve once adjust fire and walk him in on a target by spotting his misses. Very cool stuff. I'm anxious to learn more from
You guys.

 

[honeybee]

Reading the wind takes time, Wind direction and speed can change from minute to minute sometimes so some experience in different situations (trees, hills, ect.) is important for both the trigger man and the spotter.

Speaking of bedding a rifle, You know, bedding a rifle doesn't look dificult when you watch an expert do it. But I have seen a lot of ugly bedding jobs and was wondering what you would think of about my next giveaway to be a bedding job?

Send me a PM if you think it would be worthwile and I will decide in a few days if it will happen. (won't be till after first of year, I am still in a cast.)

 

[JRSherman]

Well I'd definitely be interested! It still looks a little difficult to me, and I would rather have it done right.