BATFE backpedal

Tigerstripe · Jan 17, 2015

has anybody heard the news?

the atf is now saying that we were all mistaken when we were led to believe that using a sig brace it is ok to shoulder it.

i havent looked it up but supposedly someone was arrested for using a pistol as a SBR.

GO.

Tigerstripe · Jan 18, 2015

i looked it up.

it was a home invader in California. the next day the article was updated.

now it is just being confused.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/0 ... arm-brace/

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/a ... tf-letter/

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/b ... s-illegal/

http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... pen_letter

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/0 ... il-rifles/

jfeenin · Jan 19, 2015

Regarding the update on the California situation I note that they say that might be the situation but not for certain that it is for sure. It is a state statute these criminals are being charged with and make no mistake, they are actual criminals. Not just because they had the firearm.

Being from NY I can attest to some similar ridiculous handgun laws in NY. In NY if you were caught with an unregistered pistol you didn't have a permit for you would be looking at jail. However if that is the case as in the case with the updated post on the CA issue why wouldn't they be being charged with the possession of an illegal handgun? Instead they were charged with the having an SBR. Along with the "open letter" (and it's timing) it would seem, to me at least, it's being used as a precedence case to support the ATF's new push to try and put the genie back in the bottle.

I doubt the ATF ever intended for the wrist brace to become a loophole in the SBR rules but clearly many people are using it as such. And I can't really blame them. It's a silly rule in the first place. Now it seems they are pushing to take action on it and put it in writing. First they did it in the letter for the second company wishing to sell a wrist brace and then they didn't it across the board. None of this makes a wrist brace or a pistol it's attached to illegal. Supposedly putting it to your shoulder is now considered "redesign"ing it as an SBR though. I question how enforceable it would be especially if you don't use public ranges with it but I am certainly not going to be a test case for it either.

My personal advice is, if you want an SBR, pay the $200 and do it legally. If you want a pistol to use as a pistol don't worry about it. If in the case of a TEOTWAWKI scenario you want an SBR take your pistol upper and slap it on your carbine lower then because at that time it just won't matter anyway.

PapaBear · Jan 20, 2015

I blame the industry for this.

When Sig got the "okay" to produce the SB15, it opened the flood gates. They were the only game in town, and people were buying them up left and right. Others in the industry saw the potential to capitalize on the "fad" and designed their own "braces."

This led to a flood of inquiries to the ATF about it. Take, for example, the shotgun with the "brace" that was submitted to the ATF by Black Aces Tactical, http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014 ... -shotguns/.

This influx of inquiries just hurt the consumer. The ATF realized that this was a "loophole" and is now back pedaling to slow it down.

I DO NOT, however, think it's possible for them to put this genie back in the bottle.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Jan 20, 2015

The blame lies with the stupid gun owners that are ignorant of reality and the documented history of anti-gun agencies like the (B)ATF(E).

The ATF has a predictable habit out of saying something is "OK" and then, a couple of years later, unilaterally declaring that same thing to now be a Felony.

Anyone that didn't see this coming is either an idiot or brand new to gun culture.

The ATF will continue to invent laws without Congressional input or Judicial review until they are stopped by a President.

The likelihood of that happening is probably around zero percent if the president is a Democrat or Republican.

Avtomat-Acolyte · Jan 20, 2015

Just for context, this is the same agency that invented "Sporting Purposes" with respect to importation and use of firearms, contretemps to the fact that the "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" is exclusively about shooting people to death and has nothing to do with hunting or sports.

Tigerstripe · Jan 20, 2015

ya gotta know they know that so how is it we let them even get started down their road?

jfeenin · Jan 20, 2015

You would think this would only be an issue for those that get caught shouldering it. That's what common sense would say but this is the ATF we're talking about now. They have this once an X always an X policy. IE Once a machine gun always a machine gun even if it's been made semi-auto and if you make an AR rifle once a rifle always a rifle. You're not supposed to make it into a pistol. Although if you built it yourself how would they know? But I digress. So now if I build an AR pistol and use a sig brace and by buddy then shoulders it and it's now by their new definition an SBR am I shooting an SBR when I take it back form them and shoot it as a pistol? And what happens to the once a pistol always a pistol mantra when it magically turned into a rifle?

That's all semantics I know but it's silly because this is really what this all is. It's not hard to find videos of AR pistols being shouldered all over the internet. Is the ATF going to now run around raiding the homes and businesses of all these people? Honestly I wouldn't put it past them unfortunately. At least one or two to make examples of people. I have to admit to being an AR convert in the past few years. I never had one before but once I got one I loved it. I have never felt the need for an AR pistol though and the way things are progressing I am somewhat happy about that. I can see where people would. Especially with the brace making it more usable as an SBR. Honestly though do you even need the brace to shoulder an AR pistol? Would it be an SBR then too?

According to their open letter ( http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/ ... braces.pdf ) it's the brace but it doesn't take very much reading into it that they could make the same argument without one. Next step will be saying since all could be all AR pistols are SBR's and thus need a stamp or are illegal. Buy popcorn it's going to be a good show...

Avtomat-Acolyte · Jan 20, 2015

The "once a machine gun" decision doesn't apply to Form 1 SBR/SBS. To take an SBR across state lines you need ATF permission or you can convert it back to normal rifle length for the trip.