Anybody here grouping up for SHTF?

[armaborealis]

Very cool post Enjay!!!!!! Back to the grouping thing. Just wondering is everyone's group standardized? Will all of the groups ammo magazines all interchange? I think this is important. Vote on it if everybody agrees that a Glock 21 is the side arm everybody must own a G21. If everybody agrees a AR-15 well you get my drift

I think if people spent half the time they seem to spend on this sort of issue doing PT, networking, attending first aid classes, dry firing, etc they'd be better off.

I also think that most folks would be better off spending $$$ on training to learn to use the equipment they already have and on ammo to stockpile deep. If you have more $$$ and storage space tied up in guns than ammo then you're being pennywise and pound foolish. I'm guilty of "collecting" guns too but when it comes down to it, in your heart of hearts you know what ONE rifle you're going to grab at 0300 when a crew cab of meth heads are kicking in your door -- and that's the one you should have lots of ammo and training invested in (at least to start with).

At the buddy team level, gear interchangeability is good, preferably mags if not caliber. For most people this is their spouse or maybe best friend/neighbor. Beyond that... I'm much more concerned about people having quality gear they know how to use. I'd prefer to see one guy with a nice 30-30, one gal with an Arsenal AK, two with decent quality ARs with AimPoints, and one with a scoped 308 bolt gun than five folks with standardized mosin-nagants or SKS's that they agreed on as the lowest common denominator. I'd MUCH prefer all of them to have attended CERT training, gone to at least a basic first aid class w/ CPR (if not an actual Tactical Casualty Care or Wilderness First Aid or EMT training) with good IFAKs and a vehicle first aid kit, and at least have some formal firearms training. You're far more likely to use CERT skills or first aid training than to be operating as a four main fireteam in an extended fight where you need to throw someone a mag.

 

[PCShogun]

If I may ask, where did you see those tool box looking gas tanks?

KSHMarine had some. I thought I saw something similar in the Northern tool catalog once also that was much cheaper.

http://www.kshmarine.com/100-gallon.htm

I also agree about some type of enclosure for geese, but I live in a sub division and keeping anything "Live" for food is just inviting the whole neighborhood over to ask for food. If the neighbors got together and decided to make a go, then yeah, a pen for geese and ducks would be a good idea. Those Muscovey ducks, also known as Barbary Duck, that you see everywhere are reportedly good eating (the duck that looks like it got beat with an irradiated ugly stick). I read that they taste more like roast than duck, as do Canadian geese.

I can understand the post above, but with money being a concern, I'd rather have a few Mosin bolt guns and a scattering of SKS's with many cans of ammo, than one 1,700 AR setup and little to no ammo. Plus, the Russian stuff is so dang easy to maintain. But if you got the cash to get both; quality firearms AND ammo. That's the way to go.

I think many of us prepare for different levels of disaster. My plans are more for storms and short term, low intensity anarchy than for TEOTWAWKT.

 

[armaborealis]

In what sort of "short term/low intensity anarchy" would a crate of Mosins be more helpful than a CWP & a Glock/M&P/1911? I call a trip to Walmart "short term/low intensity anarchy."

 

[PCShogun]

Anything that a trip to Walmart could resolve would not class as Anarchy at all.

I guess I would consider a lack of government lasting a few weeks to a few months; enough time for people to start becoming desperate.

Shortly after Hugo was the closest I saw. Without power for 15 days, people were starting to become violent and steal from each other. Two men drew knives on each other over a case of soda (mine, though I was not there to receive it when presented), one man lit another's trailer on fire because he felt they had robbed him the previous night, and a man with a butcher knife walking through the trailer park and looking into my sister-in-laws windows.

Having a few rifles rather than one, allows me to arm others who may not have prepared, but are allied to me in this event.

 

[11B3XCIB]

...............

 

[armaborealis]

Anything that a trip to Walmart could resolve would not class as Anarchy at all.

Clearly you haven't checked out http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/photos/ !

I guess I would consider a lack of government lasting a few weeks to a few months; enough time for people to start becoming desperate.
...
Having a few rifles rather than one, allows me to arm others who may not have prepared, but are allied to me in this event.

If things have gotten to the point where I am considering literally fixing bayonets and openly carrying a long gun for defensive usage, I want it to be a credible quality defensive carbine. For the same price as a pair of Mosins and a pair of SKS rifles I could have a decent quality M4gery or Arsenal AK (or at least -- you could before the recent panic buying began). I would feel much, much better rolling out of bed at 0300 to deal with four meth heads kicking in my front door with an AR or AK than I would with a Mosin Nagant. Heck I'd even prefer to go into such a scenario with a pump shotgun than a Mosin Nagant.

Defensive firearms are like oxygen masks on the airplane: get your own mask on before assisting others.

Think about the same situation with sidearms. Would you choose a HiPoint or a Makarov as your primary CCW because they are cheap enough to buy matching guns for all your untrained friends and neighbors who do not have enough interest in firearms to bother owning their own? Or would you prefer to have a quality Glock/M&P/1911? I'd argue that for people untrained and uninterested in firearms you're better off handing them a can of bear spray, a D-cell maglite, and a $20 FRS radio than a Mosin-Nagant. Even better would be getting them to a red cross first aid class or CERT before the event even kicks off.

I'm all about having some extra stuff for charity and helping out folks who may belatedly team up with you like friends, family, and neighbors. But not at the expense of quality life-saving gear for me and mine. Standardizing on the lowest common denominator is one of the worst aspects of "grouping up."

 

[Tigerstripe]

those people are trained to load mags.

 

[Super Shooter]

Well, if anyone needs a trustyworthy "group"...I have about 30 acres in a mostly rural area about an hour west of Columbia, not near enough to an interstate that it would get stragglers, that has some livestock (goats and chickens), completely fenced, a well, and a stream that runs most of the year unless extreme drought conditions. The property is surrounded by woods, so even people on the road couldn't look in and see the place.

That's where I'll be heading if the grid goes down.

PM sent.

 

[PANZER22]

I'm learning how to cook people and planning to roam the roads looking for victims. :twisted:

 

[Midnight Raver]

I'm learning how to cook people and planning to roam the roads looking for victims. :twisted:

C'mon, that's just silly... and pretty creepy too! :?

 

[PCShogun]

Dan, you need to look up that Samoan "long Pig" recipe.

 

[TheGriff]

Brainssss... lol

 

[Good Neighbor]

Very few people will be able to go it alone or be the lone wolf. If you live that way now, or seriously often, then you will be able to be mostly self-sufficient.
The problem remains that most people don't have all of the skills (or gear and supplies) to be Jeremiah Johnson. Most people also don't have anywhere to go so they should do their best at stocking up at home, making 3 day bug-out bags and learn basic skills-in case they have to leave on foot. Skills like fire starting, navigation, first aid, outdoor food prep and/or foraging/hunting/fishing, camp set up, evasion, small tool and weapons use. Self defense is also useful.

This is already intimidating to a large group of the population so what happens is that one person knows first aid, one knows camping, one knows guns, etc. That is why we need each other. The time to figure out who your new "family " is, is now. Don't wait till a crisis because that is too late. The LAST thing you want to do is go to a shelter, FEMA facility (you may never get back out), or get stuck with lots of people who are desperate and unprepared. That is why my first choice is to hunker down in my house and hope I don't need to go out until the "crisis" passes somewhat. This is the purpose of stocking your shelves with ALL of those things we need to survive and since we have time to plan, we can do it comfortably if we plan wisely. Besides, most people don't have $5K to go out tomorrow ad buy long tem foods, guns/ammo, camping gear, boots, take classes, etc etc. Start today and do what you can every week, as fast as you can because time is short.

Someone asked if you should be open about prepping or keep a secret. You don't want to tell people all the stuff you have because guess where they are coming when SHTF? I feel obligated to talk to people because of the "Do unto others..." and "I am my brother's keeper..." but each family is responsible for themselves. I get a sense of where they are on the topic and go from there. As far as "friends and family" goes, do not let anyone "come in" that is not prepping. There are NO free-loaders except maybe orphans and grandmas. People say "I'm not stocking up because I'm coming to your house". (hypothetically). I would tell them "No you are not" and be totally serious. We are talking about surviving: why should anyone spend time and money to feed lazy and ignorant sloths who can barely wipe their own butts?

 

[Enjay]

We have a mix of modern and old weapons. The older weapons function well and while they may not have some of the advantages of modern weapons, they're here and ready while we save for new. I agree with Arma, ammunition is a higher priority than guns, we also are trying to fully equip ourselves to manufacture the calibers we fire with an eye on sustainability, particularly with how scarce ammo and it's components are right now.

 

[badman400]

If I could go it alone in a SHTF situation, I would. Other people are just too unpredictable and some are lazy. But since it's just me and my wife now, I have to face the fact that in a long term WROL situation, you will need around the clock lookouts guarding your perimeter, whether you decide to bug in or out. Two people wouldn't last a week trying to just keep up with watch duty, much less with other chores like cooking, water carrying, wood chopping and carrying, and shelter, in the case of bug out.

Enjay seems to have her head on straight. My ideas are similar to hers, and I for one am hoping to sit tight. Because here is where all the stuff is, and the two of us couldn't bug out with enough to last for more than a couple of weeks, maybe three. If I were a little closer to Columbia I would be very interested in talking to the gentleman with the fenced in property near Columbia with stream and livestock.

I have been prepping for a few years and buidling up 3 get home/bug out bags, med supplies, etc. I am set up to reload 9 different calibers and shotshells here, and have a decent stockpile of ammo and firearms. What I need is reliable personnel. The nearby neighbors are estranged or just plain strange. My family is located about 15 minutes away. And I have been planning to call a family meeting to break the ice with them. Some are on board with the whole prepper mentality. Some aren't. I need to convince them all so that we can work and train as a group. So much will need to be done, and with a group working together, you can survive longer and with a higher quality of life. This quality of life will eventually draw the wolves that did not prepare, which you have to be ready for. Everyone needs a walkie or handheld CB, binos, a rifle and everyone needs to have a covered position if the call to defend comes down. There needs to be a chief that everyone can agree on, so that when times get bad quick, there is no hestitation in following that person's orders quickly, precisely and quietly. A lot depends on the length of the crisis, and what kind. But many facets of survival will have a lot in common. Shelter. Water. Food.

I'd love to be where I have a garden, raise some chickens, goats & rabbits, and have the cover of woods and a running stream and/or natural spring. So much to consider and do. It takes a group to do this and protect it from those who would take it away. A group of 20 would be good.

 

[Lupinus]

Grouping up? No, no hard plans for it.

As to the internet vs. offline...some of the people I'd be MOST inclined to group up with to ride out TEOTWAWKI I have met initially online and then met up with offline afterwards

 

[armaborealis]

...you will need around the clock lookouts guarding your perimeter, whether you decide to bug in or out. Two people wouldn't last a week trying to just keep up with watch duty, much less with other chores like cooking, water carrying, wood chopping and carrying, and shelter, in the case of bug out. ...

I'm sure 11B will chime in if he has anything to add... But I think you're spot on.

Maintaining a long term 24/7/365 OP is at probably a squad level task. Typically at an OP you'll have one person on lookout, one person on admin, and one person on rear security. They rotate jobs throughout their shift, and need to be changed out every 12-24 hours.

Effective maneuver with protected persons (kids, non combatants, etc), or basic three vehicle convoy ops, requires at least five armed and competent trained personnel, minimum (two buddy teams and a close protection person to shepherd the kids). Even to execute a basic "break contact" drill and leave the area needs at least a team of four or five.

With only two people the plan should look a lot more low profile, covert, and non-confrontational... Technology and careful planning might be able to mitigate some of the issues with low numbers. I imagine cameras, trip flares, dogs, and intrusion sensors (motion detectors, etc) are useful force multipliers.

 

[John Canuck]

Some may have read this already, but I recently stumbled across it again. It may not be completely applicable to the situation in the US, but an interesting read nonetheless.

?Nobody wins, we just survived, with a lot of bad dreams.?

? Selco

http://www.shtfplan.com/emergency-prepa ... e_10252011

 

[PCShogun]

I've read a similar account from a guy down in Argentina. It wasn't all out war but more like what you might experience during extended civil unrest.

 

[badman400]

I've read a similar account from a guy down in Argentina. It wasn't all out war but more like what you might experience during extended civil unrest.

The guy's name is FerFal, and like Selco, his English is not perfect. It had to do with Argentina's economic collapse. But you gotta respect what these guys went through and survived. Also we should all be thankful for their willingness to share the information. It may very well save lives one day.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_ ... story.html