16" Mid Length Light Weight 3 Gun AR

thegunnerd

thegunnerd

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Joined
Jun 8, 2013
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37
Location
Hollywood,FL
Hi there everyone ,
When i was at SHOT this year i saw a lot of 16" rifles that i really liked ( especially one from lancer ) and it got me thinking about ballistics and the NEED for an 18" barrel. Now i understand the benefits, a bit more in terms of velocity ( this can be compensated for with your load ) and the rifle length gas system can be a bit softer shooting .

But i thought to myself , a 16" barrel in 223 wylde with a mid length gas system would have no problem being accurate out to 400 yards especially with a 1 in 7 or 1 in 8 twist capable of stabilizing heavier gr bullet weights.

I'd like to hear everyone's opinions on why this can or can't be viable. I'm building a 3 gun race gun. So low mass everything , Tim's Taccom light buffer system , fluted barrel , mft minimalist stock , cf hand guard , hyperfire trigger , badass selector etc etc

My goal is to make a very very light point-able rifle with a light operating system and all the bells and whistles

I'm also eyeing the JP 15 upper with a 16" barrel , although i'd probably switch out the comp
 
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It's viable just not as soft shooting as an identical gun with an 18" barrel. Now it's only a small difference in recoil but it's different. We chase the fastest rifle out there to the edges of reliability but then we see cool shorter barrels and trade performance for coolness. If you never shot anything but a mid length 16" you'd think it was thebomb.com.
 
Well ive shot both and i like the rifle length gas 18" (personally i like a big heavy comp on the end too), you cant put a price on not having to wait on sights for 2 shots on paper at 50 yards (which you will see a lot in 3 gun), honestly im guessing this "choice" will not help or hender you beat someone in a competition unless you are maybe top 20 in the nation or something... JMO.

I can tell you the truth on this though, if you want to know what to run then look at the majority of pro shooters and what they shoot.... 18" rifle gas.... benelli m2.... 2011.... answers are there.... no need to over think anything... the guys shooting for a career have thought of it already, guaranteed.

And if you want a lighter gun get your pipes jacked!
 
Hehe

Well i run an M2 ( I need Mike to give it a tuning though, my slugs hit all sorts off low and right ) and a 2011 ( although i wish i hadn't already had mine built because the Ai you were selling Jesse is ****ing tight ) …and had an 18" but i kept going back to my old 16" and really like the pointability and maneuverability of the rifle in that configuration. I've talked to Tim Ubl from taccom and i think he had a similar idea so hopefully i'll be able to get with him about making the right riffle. Add in lmos and his ultra low mass buffer and that rifle length gas will be but a minor difference . For gents of shorter stature with shorter arms ( me being 5'6 …on a good day …..with shoes on ) the leverage needed to run the 16" barrel is less especially if you throw a long comp on there , which i had ( seekins ) . So for this upper i want very light , 16" , lmos, and a short comp like the Dynamic Resistance . Just a though really . I also want to go with a super minimal stock . Really an ultralight rifle with a very light operating system to compensate for the increased felt recoil and mid length gas system

This will be an interesting experiment . I also may just get a JP 15 with a 16" barrel and be done with it =) Buuuuut we shall see .
 
I've had this same idea lately. Mostly because I can't help but tinker with things but also for the weight reduction. My wife has a hard time shooting my 18" rifle standing with it as is but I have a heavy barrel. An ultra light 16 sounds like fun but I just can't bring myself to spend the money right now
 
Taran Butler nearly always recommends a 16"-17" barrel, which I've often thought was odd based on what the local group recommends.
 
numero uno runs a 10.5 or something right? different strokes for different folks i guess... i know i like 18 gas over 16 A LOT
 
Clint Dismore said:
I've had this same idea lately. Mostly because I can't help but tinker with things but also for the weight reduction. My wife has a hard time shooting my 18" rifle standing with it as is but I have a heavy barrel. An ultra light 16 sounds like fun but I just can't bring myself to spend the money right now
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It's rather pricey, but the JP ultra light 18" barrel is insanely accurate and very light weight. I don't think your wife would have any issue running it.
I also have an 18" Satern stainless double fluted barrel and the JP is definitely lighter.
 
Matt Rigsby said:
It's rather pricey, but the JP ultra light 18" barrel is insanely accurate and very light weight. I don't think your wife would have any issue running it.
I also have an 18" Satern stainless double fluted barrel and the JP is definitely lighter.
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I've been kicking the idea of that around too. Thanks for the advice Matt
 
Mitch Gibson said:
Taran Butler nearly always recommends a 16"-17" barrel, which I've often thought was odd based on what the local group recommends.
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taran butlers local group doesnt have a chris andersen mike cyrwus jesse tischauser or kurt miller in it.
now does it, boy?
 
Jesse Tischauser said:
Have you met Taran Butler?
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Every video I've ever seen him talk about an AR, it's the same story about how 16" barrels are fast and light. Or shredding, or whatever his lingo is. I'm just throwing that out there, since he's crushed you and just about everyone else like an egg.
 
If you're shooting pro series, ok, fine . If you're not, all the time is in the 200yd plus targets. Heavier is easier to shoot and longer is better velocity.

Let's say that by shooting a 16" vs a 20" barrel you save .10 seconds per transition (which is on the ridiculous side of reality, it's going to be less).

It's going to take 50 transitions to equal the one extra shot you took at the 300+ yard target.

This is not a smart trade.

I'm 5-7, 145#, and excuses about being too heavy are invalid unless you're a girl. There are lots of well balanced 18-20" barrels out there.
 
I'm not saying my 18 was too heavy . It wasn't heavy at all. But , i prefer the quickness and pointability of a 16" barrel . With the right specs a 16" barrel will have no issue at all hitting out to 300 or even 400 yards +

Once you have the 18" barrel throw on a comp and now you're closer to 20 " moving through small areas , manipulating the barrel through ports on a shooting ladder , just getting the front edge around is easier . If i can figure out a way to have a lightweight 16" upper that has the right specs to stabilize a heavy bullet 69, 77 whatever out , i think it's just as viable as an 18

Mind you having the low mass operating system, a mid length gas system ( not carbine of course ) , taccom recoil system , and a nice brake . It's the difference between shooting a 6" or a 5" 2011 . Will you have a slightly longer sight radius with a 6" ? yes , but it's going to be heavier and point a little bit slower . Can a 5" do pretty much everything a 6" gun can do , yup , same with a 16 .

My reasoning isn't all for weight , it's for maneuverability in tighter spaces , going from ports to ports as well. I just think the 16" barrel needs a closer look at and may be just as viable as an 18 with the added benefits i'm mentioning
 
mike cyrwus said:
taran butlers local group doesnt have a chris andersen mike cyrwus jesse tischauser or kurt miller in it.
now does it, boy?
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I lived in southern cali for a while ( thank f&$k i'm not anymore ) and no he certainly doesn't .

What do you think Mike ? I was talking to Sterling about a 16" JP , he was saying he shoots one , loves it , kinda goes in the direction I'm thinking. You have far more technical knowledge then I do on the subject.
 
I have a 16 with rifle gas and my wife has a heavy barreled 18 inch upper the 18 is WAY WAY more stable than the 16 but the 16 still gets the job done, I don't think there is much to be gained in terms of velocity for 3 gun with the extra two inch's but its a hell of a lot nicer
 
You might be on the edge of reliability with that little dwell time
 
I would be careful jumping on this barrel. I don't have any hard facts to tell you why. But if this was some sort of end all be all barrel everyone would be making it. It's generally accepted that you need 5 inches of barrel past the gas block to achieve reliable function. Not sure how much the lmos will help with that. All I'm saying is do some research and find some reviews before you jump on this barrel. If they have opened up the gas port to accommodate this problem then you have to ask yourself if you are really getting any advantage with the rifle length over a middy. I wouldn't think so but that just a dummy figurin.
 
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