Heartland Carry Gun Match May 15

MISph1t · May 16, 2011

I had more penalty time than Jesse had total time for the match. Gotta slow down and look at the thingy on the front of my gun and not the target. Gotta work on getting the proper grip out of the holster too.

Had fun though! Thanks to all who made it great!

David E · May 17, 2011

Since this match is promoted as and set up for actual Carryguns and equipment, we will start enforcing that guns and equipment be put in the proper division. IE; dropped offset holsters (ladies excepted) BA magwells, angled mag pouches, etc will be placed in the "Other" division.

This allows everyone to play without skewing the results.

jtischauser · May 17, 2011

David E said:
 Since this match is promoted as and set up for actual Carryguns and equipment, we will start enforcing that guns and equipment be put in the proper division. IE; dropped offset holsters (ladies excepted) BA magwells, angled mag pouches, etc will be placed in the "Other" division. This allows everyone to play without skewing the results.

This will be tough to do as most people including me don't know what you have in mind for the divisions.

PDN · May 17, 2011

David E said:
Since this match is promoted as and set up for actual Carryguns and equipment, we will start enforcing that guns and equipment be put in the proper division. IE; dropped offset holsters (ladies excepted) BA magwells, angled mag pouches, etc will be placed in the "Other" division.

This allows everyone to play without skewing the results.

Sounds reasonable. Can you give us a brief description of the equipment/criteria for each division?

Thanks,

Paul

jtischauser · May 17, 2011

Here is last nights video.

Jefpainthorse · May 17, 2011

This match has been described before. Carry Gun or Defensive gun implies you would use the gun, holster and reloading gear one normally uses when toting his CCW gun.
In the past ... cover garments have been encouraged but not required. Some shooters may elect to dispense with the garments, as experience dictates.

David has promoted Snub nosed nights... a single stack meet.... and I've read on this very forum that many shooters shoot the pistol they drove over with... or intend to wear Monday and the week following the match.

We have at least one shooter who 'really' EDC's a Glock with a weapon mounted light...

I never minded shooting with guys who want to use Heartland as tuner for serious competition. Running two classes with production style guns and real world holsters as one class and another with modifed guns and race guns is ok with me... Let's just not let the "rule making"get in the way of the fun.

That sunk USPSA for a lot of folks.

Jefpainthorse · May 17, 2011

PDN aka Thumper said:
Sounds reasonable. Can you give us a brief description of the equipment/criteria for each division?

Thanks,

Paul

Cut and pasted from post 1... this very thread
Match Type: Handgun, Tactical Action. Emphasis on Carryguns and holsters. IPSC rules with TIME PLUS scoring.
Stages: Four (typically)
Round Count: 72-80 rds
Equipment: Practical guns .380 or larger, carried in practical gear. Holster (required) must cover triggerguard. Two spare magazines or 2 speedloaders will get you thru any stage. No shoulder or pocket holsters or cross-draw rigs. No Race guns or gear.

Do we need to define race guns and gear?

David E · May 17, 2011

Post #1, in this thread and every other one announcing this match, states what the divisions are, including "other."

It seems to me that the "intent" of the match and divisions are clearly defined in Post #1. If this is not the case, then I need to know the specific areas of confusion so I can clear that up.

Jefpainthorse · May 17, 2011

David E said:
Post #1, in this thread and every other one announcing this match, states what the divisions are, including "other."

It seems to me that the "intent" of the match and divisions are clearly defined in Post #1. If this is not the case, then I need to know the specific areas of confusion so I can clear that up.

David... defining "race gun" whas rhetorical on my part.

Keep doing what we are doing... scoring "carry gunners" as a group could be a morale builder though. I like the idea.

xdnok · May 17, 2011

Jeff said:
David... defining "race gun" whas rhetorical on my part.

Keep doing what we are doing... scoring "carry gunners" as a group could be a morale builder though. I like the idea.

+1

I love the variety of this match, it's one of the few places I can compete with my carry gun from a holster I really use under a shirt or vest I might actually use with the pressure of a timer (we all know what that's like) and an audience of talented shooters to watch. It's also a great place to try new equipment. In the real world I stuff an extra mag in one of my pockets and as luck would have it I forgot to bring mag carriers to a match and had the opportunity (?) to shoot without and now I know what to expect.

Wes

jtischauser · May 17, 2011

Is there anyone but me and Chambers that shoots their race gun occasionally?

Oh yeah I bought my father-in-law a DOH holster so he's in other now too. That race gear obviously helps him win.

I will shoot other from now on so that someone else can win HI cap or LO cap.

benjamin-benjamin · May 18, 2011

this may be a little unpopular, but... since there are no prizes, no "official" rankings, nothing that affects anything, who cares? i mean people say things like "i like the fact that it is a carrygun match", so if 1 person shoots a "racegun" because that is what they want to get better with does that mean that you CANNOT shoot your carrygun??? it is completely irrelevant... it is just funny how people get worked up, just like when people went to david to tell him that i was tucking my shirt inside my IWB holster before i shot so i wasn't shooting "concealed" yet, i never claimed i was shooting concealed and it didn't move me to a different division, yet people were still upset about it, although ignoring all the people with OWB holsters, go figure??
IMO, how far do you really want to take it, i like it because anyone can come and shoot any gun, but if we are really going to make it a true carrygun, then everyone must shoot from concealed, most people don't carry reloads, so those are out i guess after you run out of bullets the rest of the stage is just penalties, i could go on and on.... but if we did that and it was supposed to replicate what goes on at your house that means i would have to shoot with my shirt off and since i have so much chest hair that would make tom selleck's jaw drop, most people would never come back again after seeing that!!!

once again the thing i love about this match is anyone can shoot anything, how does it affect you getting better with your gun if someone is shooting a .44 magnum from a ghost holster??

David E · May 18, 2011

It's not about who wins, it's about fairness and meaningful comparison.

It's not fair for the guy shooting a stock Glock 19 from an IWB to compete directly against a Glock 34 fwith a BA magwell and extended magazines from a DOH with angled mag pouches, nor can he make a valid comparison to the scores posted by the G-34

Having just shot the 1911 Nationals, it's pretty cool to compare the shooting while disregarding the gear, as it had zero impact on the outcome.

I created "Other" division to allow those shooters that want to utilize this match as a warm-up to do just that.

David E · May 18, 2011

The only thing that needs to be changed is to simply put the appropriate gun/equipment in the already existing "Other" division.

Nothing more is necessary.

It's no different than going to an IPSC or IDPA match and being placed in the proper division.

imacgyver · May 18, 2011

I'm very familiar with "Other"

jtischauser · May 18, 2011

Is my limited Glock 34 an other? Is my production Glock 34 an other? How about my nightstand Glock 34? Same goes for my tweaked out 625 and my race ready SS? My point is that our simple rules aren't setup for all of the guns and gear out there. If we want USPSA divisions or IDPA divisions let's be clear about it and use their rulebooks.

David E · May 18, 2011

This shouldn't be a big deal, so I'm a bit puzzled by some of the posts.

The intent of the match was made clear over a year ago and in every thread announcing this match since then. The divisions are listed along with a description of what features belong in what division.

I originally declared the CR belt and DOH rigs unsuitable for this match. I subsequently amended that be creating the "Other" division, so those folks can come play, too. If that's the gear you want to shoot, then why would you object to being placed in the division that was created just for that equipment??

If a person decides to shoot the USPSA 1911 division, then he'll need to comply with those rules, or find himself being moved to "Open" division. (as some people found out at the 1911 Nationals)

Jesse, I don't understand your ferocity on this topic. You'll still win HOA, so what's the beef?

Burk Cornelius · May 18, 2011

David E said:
Jesse, I don't understand your ferocity on this topic. You'll still win HOA, so what's the beef?

But what inquiring minds want to know is could he win in a practical division like snub nose revolver from concealment. Looks like we'll ever know.............

Wall · May 18, 2011

Most generally, the people with the "race" gear are the people who have been shooting in USPSA for a while. These people are a valuable resource for tips, advice, even help with the match. Do we really want to miss out on all of that by alienating them & making them feel unwelcome?