Yeah for me!

[Glocktogo]

To bad we have some of those funky Gun Control laws. If your agency could sell those M16's on the legal Class 3 market... you guys would be knee deep in new patrol cars for 10 years.In my home town county... the SO liberated 2 '21 Thompsons from some Chicago Gangsters. By law... they have to keep them in evidence or cut them up for disposal. Value has been estimated over $200,000 a few years ago... both have links to the Valentines Day Shootings and the Capone gang.

Those guns come out for "open houses" at the SO and get fired now and then.... it's a shame to keep history locked up- but the law forces it.

Laws are written by men. Some men are very, very stupid. Carry on!

 

[ChrisC]

Being a firearms instructor in a non uniformed agency I feel troy's pain.... I shot more a month than the majority of my department does a year....

 

[TroyF]

No offense taken, Tony. I love you. In a purely hetro let's go shoot something kind of way.

 

[ChrisC]

Jeff they can complete a form that allows them to keep the guns as an agency. They won't be transferable to the public but can be put into "use" it is a shame they can't sell them for what they are worth.

 

[redneck1861]

LE Depts can't have select fire weapons?
Sux, this leaves you out gunned by all the thugs.

Some LEO's in Oklahoma are issued select fire rifles, like troy said mostly swat members. But my grandfather is a Oklahma street crimes deputy, and is a member of the drug task force. He was recently issues a select fire AR. I have got to shoot it a handful of times, I am lucky that we live out in the country and have a private gun range, so I can shoot it anytime he is home and willing to walk down to our range with me, that is if I have to money and ammo to feed it.


It is kinda scary though, talking to some of the guys he works with that were also issued select fire rifles. Most of what they do is buying drugs, so that they can get the proper warrants. These rifles are for when they are serving a warrant,, which is alot of times these days. I asked why they need full auto capabilities, and mentioned that it seems like overkill to me. Then I asked what if they had to actually fire their rifles in defence while serving the warrant, what if there is innocent bystanders close by. I was told by a cople of them that they are not concearned with the safety of the bystander, they will still use full auto even if the innocent person is shot by the police, they are only concearned with making sure they(police) are not shot by the drug dealer.

I was actually told that by a couple of the drug task force guys that are carrying department issued full auto's. It really scares me that there are LEO's out there that are not concearned if they shoot an innocent person as long as they are safe. I like shooting my grandfathers department issued full auto, but I think it is a horrible idea for any LEO's use full auto burst's in a public setting where people are around.

 

[TroyF]

Holy crap Justin! That is the most insane thing I've ever heard. You gotta PM me and tell me who gramps is tho (I think I may know him).

 

[ChrisC]

That's crazy elephant dung... I'm sure Jim Anderson would disagree with those statements. round accountability is pretty important.

 

[imacgyver]

What's the reliability on that model m-16? I think you mentioned they did not have a forward assist and my pal WIKI shows that as pre A1 - etc. Is that correct?

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Those early M16's run ok... If you run the correct powder in them, don't drag em in the swamp and use a cleaning kit now and again.
The pre forward assist gun got a bad rap.... The DOD allowed a powder spec change, did not buy cleaning kits and proceeded to send the rifles to a swamp.

Jamb that forward assist into a dirty gun and break out the cuss words....

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Some LEO's in Oklahoma are issued select fire rifles, like troy said mostly swat members. But my grandfather is a Oklahma street crimes deputy, and is a member of the drug task force. He was recently issues a select fire AR. I have got to shoot it a handful of times, I am lucky that we live out in the country and have a private gun range, so I can shoot it anytime he is home and willing to walk down to our range with me, that is if I have to money and ammo to feed it.


It is kinda scary though, talking to some of the guys he works with that were also issued select fire rifles. Most of what they do is buying drugs, so that they can get the proper warrants. These rifles are for when they are serving a warrant,, which is alot of times these days. I asked why they need full auto capabilities, and mentioned that it seems like overkill to me. Then I asked what if they had to actually fire their rifles in defence while serving the warrant, what if there is innocent bystanders close by. I was told by a cople of them that they are not concearned with the safety of the bystander, they will still use full auto even if the innocent person is shot by the police, they are only concearned with making sure they(police) are not shot by the drug dealer.

I was actually told that by a couple of the drug task force guys that are carrying department issued full auto's. It really scares me that there are LEO's out there that are not concearned if they shoot an innocent person as long as they are safe. I like shooting my grandfathers department issued full auto, but I think it is a horrible idea for any LEO's use full auto burst's in a public setting where people are around.

Wow.... Remind me never to break the law in Cleveland County.
I smell a shaggy dog story.....

 

[TroyF]

Jeff is absolutely correct. They run fine if maintained. Are they a little more finicky than an A1? Probably. The most they are gonna run at a time is 1000 rounds spread out over 4 days of rifle school. I do random function and cleanliness checks on all of our weapons, to safeguard against letting them get malfunction prone. At this point I'm more concerned with ammunition problems. Anyone else notice primers backing out of Federal 5.56 and locking up the bolts?

 

[redneck1861]

Holy crap Justin! That is the most insane thing I've ever heard. You gotta PM me and tell me who gramps is tho (I think I may know him).

I'll PM you, I don't know if thats how those guys really feel or think, for all I know they could have just been pulling my leg. I really hope thats the case, because I would be pissed if myself or any of my family was shot by police because they decided to fire a full auto in public. Even if its not full auto, I am pretty sure that a LEO is responsible to know what or who is around before they shoot at a BG.

Wow.... Remind me never to break the law in Cleveland County.
I smell a shaggy dog story.....

It is not a Cleveland county thing. My grandpa is still technically a Cleveland county deputy, but he is also cross deputizied in I think every county in Oklahoma. He does not have a county squad car, he has a state squad car, as well as a UC lincoln navigator that was issued to him. He doesn't even carry the same badge that he did when he was just a regular dpeuty. He now carries an Oklahoma Street Crimes Unit badge. I Think His unit mainly works Cleveland, Pott., and McClian counties out of professional respect for other departments, but they do organize with other departments when they are in a different area.

 

[drmitchgibson]

Seems like this would just be a training issue of when/when not to use it.

I understand the praticality issue, I just don't like the idea of our LEO's being out gunned. The thugs sure aren't going to remove the FA capabilities.

Thugs don't run around with >$15,000 dollar machine guns. It is exceedingly rare relative to the amount of thuggish crimes being committed.

 

[imacgyver]

How awesome would it be if all thugs ran around with Tek-9s and highpoints

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I can't think of any legal full autos used in crimes since the 30's

Most of the "easy" ways to full auto an Ak will break it after a while

Most of the evidence room guns I've seen have been shortened bolt action rifles and cut down shotguns ... That's been a few years ago