What makes a 1911 a 1911?

[Patrick Palmer]

I've read through some of the 1911 posts on this page, but while I understand why a 1911 has a chance to be a better gun, I don't understand what makes a 1911 a 1911. If I'm correct, a 1911 vs 2011 is single vs double stack mag related. But are handguns 1911's because they have external hammers, certain external shapes, made with specific internal parts, etc?

Side question: Some online firearm purchasing sites list 1911's as a category, but I don't see 2011's listed. Do all 1911's stand a chance to be a 2011, assuming the mag difference thought above is correct, if you buy a double stack magazine to use in the handgun?

Thanks,

Medicius

 

[JTMaddox]

In my mind it's any pistol that is based on, or a close derivation of John Moses Browning's original M1911 design...

 

[poopgiggle]

how many hairs make a beard?

 

[The Antichrome]

In my mind it's any pistol that is based on, or a close derivation of John Moses Browning's original M1911 design...

This.

 

[poopgiggle]

In my mind it's any pistol that is based on, or a close derivation of John Moses Browning's original M1911 design...

Define "close derivation."

Is this a 1911?

If not, at what point was it no longer a 1911?

This is the question I think OP is asking.

 

[ShaneP]

In my mind it's any pistol that is based on, or a close derivation of John Moses Browning's original M1911 design...

+1

 

[drmitchgibson]

I've read through some of the 1911 posts on this page, but while I understand why a 1911 has a chance to be a better gun, I don't understand what makes a 1911 a 1911. If I'm correct, a 1911 vs 2011 is single vs double stack mag related. But are handguns 1911's because they have external hammers, certain external shapes, made with specific internal parts, etc?

Side question: Some online firearm purchasing sites list 1911's as a category, but I don't see 2011's listed. Do all 1911's stand a chance to be a 2011, assuming the mag difference thought above is correct, if you buy a double stack magazine to use in the handgun?

Thanks,

Medicius

The 1911 is a 1911 for the same reasons a Glock is a Glock. It's in the design. No 1911 can be a 2011, because a 2011 has a separate lower frame and grip, and a patented trigger shoe (!). 2011s are just now beginning to be recognized by the general shooting public, and that's why you really don't see many listings when shopping online. And sometimes they are lumped into the 1911 category, because internally/mechanically they are the same gun. Most places don't sell them: there are a LOT more people with $600 to spend on a gun than there are with $2000 to spend on a gun, so there isn't much incentive to stock them. You can buy double-stack 1911s (incredibly few to choose from), but they won't take 2011 mags, as far as I've ever heard/read. I think double-stack 1911s are generally fed Para mags, modified Para mags, or OEM mags.

 

[The Antichrome]

Define "close derivation."

Is this a 1911?

If not, at what point was it no longer a 1911?

This is the question I think OP is asking.

No, it is not a 1911.
At the point when it was built.

 

[JTMaddox]

Define "close derivation."

Is this a 1911?

If not, at what point was it no longer a 1911?

This is the question I think OP is asking.

My answer would be yes. The designer of that weapon clearly drew inspiration from, and based the operation and mechanical function on the 1911 platform. But I can see where that answer to that question is subjective to individual opinions.

Maybe it's like porn...you can't exactly define it, but you know it when you see it... We could get all philosophical about this, but at the end of the day you have to break the question down to the simplest form and define a base line. I think my previous answer is a good place to start.

 

[Matt1911]

Define "close derivation."

Is this a 1911?

Nope. That's a 2011

 

[The Antichrome]

My answer would be yes. The designer of that weapon clearly drew inspiration from, and based the operation and mechanical function on the 1911 platform. But I can see where that answer to that question is subjective to individual opinions.

Maybe it's like porn...you can't exactly define it, but you know it when you see it... We could get all philosophical about this, but at the end of the day you have to break the question down to the simplest form and define a base line. I think my previous answer is a good place to start.

It's not philosophical at all. On the opposite side of the gun, the frame will be marked '2011'
While they share similar slides, its a completely different gun.

The Para and Caspian also use 1911 style slides, but they arent 1911's or 2011's.