I have been carrying the wrong gun for self defense!

[Mitch Rapp]

And so has all of the military, law enforcement and all of you guys.............


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hdr14xVetXM


Here is what I wrote as a response......

[background=rgb(237, 239, 244)]Ok, lets see, Israel used 22 cal Beretta's, often with two agents firing multiple shots into the back of the targets head, so now you have decided it must be the best self defense [/background]​

[background=rgb(237, 239, 244)]round? There is a bit of difference between assassination and self defense. Secondly, the reason more people have been killed with 22's and .380s is due to the simple fact that there are more 22's and .380s out there than anything else. The argument you are making is like saying semi trucks are less likely to kill you than cars because more people have been killed by cars with four wheels than trucks with eighteen. Take a serious look at self defense shootings and get back to us.[/background]​

 

[Wall]

where was this at?

 

[Mitch Rapp]

Ok, I linked the vid.... it disappeared.... sec......


FIXED!

 

[KeithCross]

Content aside...Cool Video!



Regarding Content...The Fool!

 

[KeithCross]

Wait...did he say "less recoil than an airsoft gun..."? Seriously?

 

[benjamin-benjamin]

nevermind

 

[Adam Striegel]

Isn't it illegal to carry a .22lr as a concealed weapon? I thought they had to be a .380 or higher, but not 44 or higher.

 

[Iggie]

Isn't it illegal to carry a .22lr as a concealed weapon? I thought they had to be a .380 or higher, but not 44 or higher.

Law states .45 cailiber or lower.

 

[WillR]

Isn't it illegal to carry a .22lr as a concealed weapon? I thought they had to be a .380 or higher, but not 44 or higher.

You can can't carry a 45?

 

[nikatkimber]

You can can't carry a 45?

You can. As Chase said, you can carry anything .45 cal and under.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I tend to agree with some of the points raised. With the caveat -if the 22 is the only caliber one can control- they are better off with that than a cartridge they cannot control.

But in practice.. the video guy runs amuck in some illogical fallicy.

Hitting 3, 4, 5 shots from any gun may be impossible. Gun fights and those dynamic critical incidents that demand defensive gun play are generally over before they start. A draw and shoot over 1.5 seconds may not satisfy the Tueller principle. How can anyone be assured they will have time to fire multiple shots as an agressor advances? How many shots can you land if engaged with both parties taking cover?

In either case I'd opt out for a heavier bullet. One shot may be all we get to land.

The old saw about mouse guns killing more people... correct. Killing is not the same as "stopping". If you die as the result of a sub caliber bullet wound a week after you finished me off in the robbery- you win. I got a close "second" in the gunfight.

We have enough observation on record I'd confidently go on a limb here... 80% for people shot once survive. Just because they are in pain and bleeding is not proof positive the agressor will pull off and lick their wounds or break contact. I have read that some Doctors feel that victims die simply because they cannot control shock and mentally shut down after being hit by a otherwise, non fatal wound.

I figure a bigger bullet lengthens my odds of inflicting pain or shutting down the nervous system or making a bigger leak. Big trauma once is always better than little trauma when it comes to causing damage. A bullet that breaks bone will be more harmful than one the pokes a hole in muscle or fat.

People argue ballistic perfomance all day long... some of the red herrings and non sequitor are getting a little long in the tooth- and gun writters keep getting a lot of words out of it.

 

[Ben Zacharias]

I took a CCW class last year (a 3 day course). There was an older lady in the class with a Glock 19 and she couldn't shoot that gun worth a elephant dung. She tried several other 9mms and 380's with the same results. Then someone gave her a 22 mag revolver they used as their bug gun. She drilled the crap out of the target the rest of the weekend from 3-15 yards and while moving. According to the ballistic gelatin test (which isn't ideal but better than nothing) that round will penetrate 14".

Which gun should she carry? According to some gun writers she should carry something that starts with a .4. My vote is that little 22 mag.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

I took a CCW class last year (a 3 day course). There was an older lady in the class with a Glock 19 and she couldn't shoot that gun worth a elephant dung. She tried several other 9mms and 380's with the same results. Then someone gave her a 22 mag revolver they used as their bug gun. She drilled the crap out of the target the rest of the weekend from 3-15 yards and while moving. According to the ballistic gelatin test (which isn't ideal but better than nothing) that round will penetrate 14".

Which gun should she carry? According to some gun writers she should carry something that starts with a .4. My vote is that little 22 mag.

See the openener in the post above yours... if the 22 is all you can handle... that is what you should carry.

My observation of CCW training tells me that those who "cannot" hit with a centerfire gun usually don't have the fundementals down anyway. I've seen to many people who could qualify with a Buck mark or Ruger 22 magically move up to a 38 or 9mm after they had some quality training in basic pistol craft.

It's almost a shame we let people do CCW certs with sub caliber guns... the vast majority who do are fooling them selfs... and the few who cannot handle a larger gun for medical reasons usually have a motivation throught their disability to be the "best they can be" with the smaller calibers.

 

[Adam Striegel]

Law states .45 cailiber or lower.

Man, I could have sworn the instructor said that 22, 25, and 44 couldn't be carried in oklahoma. Maybe he just said that you shouldn't carry a 22... heh

 

[Iggie]

Man, I could have sworn the instructor said that 22, 25, and 44 couldn't be carried in oklahoma. Maybe he just said that you shouldn't carry a 22... heh

If you haven't read the law I suggest you read it. It could be your life or freedom on the line if you don't know your rights!

 

[Adam Striegel]

Yeah I know ... I've got kind of a terrible memory and was planning on brushing up after my SDA permit finally shows up.

After thinking about it, I do remember that he said the 44 was illegal to carry, but the 9mm is the lowest recommended to carry.

 

[Jefpainthorse]

Yeah I know ... I've got kind of a terrible memory and was planning on brushing up after my SDA permit finally shows up.

After thinking about it, I do remember that he said the 44 was illegal to carry, but the 9mm is the lowest recommended to carry.

Adam...take this for what it is. When you elect to arm your self in the event the gravest extreme happens you should know the laws well in advance. We have a risk not only from the bad people who may harm us ... we are in peril from those who judge those actions.

That SDA- you really need to order a hard copy or print one off and read it. Make your wife read it. Speak to your attorney about it. Some pretty minor things can turn into a high midemeanor or felony of Civil damages if you don't follow this law.

Aint pickin on you... shooting guns is fun. Shooting people is serious.

 

[Adam Striegel]

I grew up in a family that all carried guns, even before the SDA. I'm also friends with several cops. Believe me, I know how important knowing all the rules are since even a minor oversight can lead to jail time. My memory isn't really as bad as I make it out to be, I just always joke about it because my wife gives me so much crap about forgetting things. heh

I really did plan on going over all that stuff again and to stay on top of the rules before I started carrying. I do appreciate the advice and glad to see the gun community puts so much emphasis on making sure the new guys understand what they're doing.

 

[poopgiggle]

I never took the Oklahoma class (I have a FL non-resident permit from back when I had an IL driver's license) but from what I can gather, lots of SDA instructors are idiot mouthbreathers and/or just make stuff up. I have no trouble believing that your instructor told you that 44 Magnum was illegal to carry. Having read the Oklahoma SDA myself, I can tell you that he was wrong.

The law is free to download on the Internet. Read it.

 

[Adam Striegel]

I never took the Oklahoma class (I have a FL non-resident permit from back when I had an IL driver's license) but from what I can gather, lots of SDA instructors are idiot mouthbreathers and/or just make stuff up. I have no trouble believing that your instructor told you that 44 Magnum was illegal to carry. Having read the Oklahoma SDA myself, I can tell you that he was wrong.

The law is free to download on the Internet. Read it.

Yeah, I looked at it and saw where it says nothing larger than .45. I think a lot of people are under the assumption that .44 cal pistols are "more powerful" than a .45, thus illegal to carry. But as the law is written, a .50cal pistol would be the only one that's illegal to carry right?