Walmart refuses to sell woman shotgun

fiundagner · Sep 19, 2012

Ah its been so peaceful and quite on the blog lately. Why don?t we mix things up with this news story

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/mother- ... ung-woman/

If you haven?t heard this one yet what it apparently boils down to is a Wal-Mart employee refuse to sell a tactical shotgun to a "petite woman" on the ground it was "too much gun for her". The employee then followed it up with a threat to call the FBI and report her as a straw buyer, and then had her escorted out of the store by the assistant manager. Having heard of similar instances from other sources I have no problem believing this story.

The employee may have been within bounds to point out that the shotgun she wanted might not be ideal for her, but to then threaten her with an FBI investigation and to have her escorted from the store went beyond all bounds of reason.

94formulabird · Sep 19, 2012

screw that noise...hes lucky hes not living in the south...he would have gotten his ass beat in the parking lot

C_Carson · Sep 19, 2012

I wonder what action she is going to take? If this had happened to me, it would be game ON.

IMO, the employee was being a sexist, arrogant and controlling nanny stating asshat.

Midnight Raver · Sep 19, 2012

What a chauvinistic dillweed! I would have loved to see someone say that to my niece Rachel when she bought her Remington 870 several years ago, she would have given him an asskicking!!!

That woman and her husband should definitely bitchslap WallyWorld for this one, they certainly deserve whatever happens for such offensive behaviour. At the very least Mr. Mall Ninja the sales expert should be down at the Unemployment office begging for some Obamabucks in the very near future...

Tigerstripe · Sep 20, 2012

the papers dont ask who the gun is for they ask if you are the person that is being identified as the buyer. if you can legally buy it you can do what you want with it. legal or not if you want to be a crook.

i have bought guns for my wife, yes I am me, then give her the gun for Christmas, birthday or just cause she is her. she has bought them and given them to me. now i know it is legal for her to have it, she has a permit also.

i had always had pump shootguns till she gave me a Browning Gold Limited Edition National Wild Turkey Federation Special. its in her name. that was COOL.

.

melloyello · Sep 28, 2012

To be devil's advocate....Dealers have the right to refuse to sell firearms to anyone if they feel it is a straw purchase.

If the husband was with her, how does the employee know not know it was really for him and whether it was legal for him to own a firearm.
I will tell you from direct experience when you have a women comes in with a man to purchase a 357 or 44 magnum eyes turn and the questions begin.
And the dealer did ask if it was for me which I said no, and he asked how is he t o know she just won't give it to me when I get home...

Told him I can buy my own, showed my firearms permit and the dealer apologised, said he had to protect himself and the purchase went on.

dreamerofdreams · Sep 28, 2012

melloyello said:
To be devil's advocate....Dealers have the right to refuse to sell firearms to anyone if they feel it is a straw purchase.

If the husband was with her, how does the employee know not know it was really for him and whether it was legal for him to own a firearm.
I will tell you from direct experience when you have a women comes in with a man to purchase a 357 or 44 magnum eyes turn and the questions begin.
And the dealer did ask if it was for me which I said no, and he asked how is he t o know she just won't give it to me when I get home...

Told him I can buy my own, showed my firearms permit and the dealer apologised, said he had to protect himself and the purchase went on.

...Are you saying it's reasonable to discriminate in firearms purchases based on gender?

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. If my husband goes to buy a firearm and I'm with him, how does the salesperson know it's not for me?

Seriously, all this is, is discriminating because "you" think that women can't shoot big calibers. :roll: And a .357 isn't even a big caliber. You've got to be kidding me.

Also, a CWP (I assume that's what you meant by a firearms permit?) isn't required to purchase a firearm, why should anyone, ESPECIALLY someone who ISN'T BUYING THE FIREARM have to show one?

C_Carson · Sep 28, 2012

dreamerofdreams said:
melloyello said:

To be devil's advocate....Dealers have the right to refuse to sell firearms to anyone if they feel it is a straw purchase.

If the husband was with her, how does the employee know not know it was really for him and whether it was legal for him to own a firearm.
I will tell you from direct experience when you have a women comes in with a man to purchase a 357 or 44 magnum eyes turn and the questions begin.
And the dealer did ask if it was for me which I said no, and he asked how is he t o know she just won't give it to me when I get home...

Told him I can buy my own, showed my firearms permit and the dealer apologised, said he had to protect himself and the purchase went on.

Click to expand...

...Are you saying it's reasonable to discriminate in firearms purchases based on gender?

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. If my husband goes to buy a firearm and I'm with him, how does the salesperson know it's not for me?

Seriously, all this is, is discriminating because "you" think that women can't shoot big calibers. :roll: And a .357 isn't even a big caliber. You've got to be kidding me.

Also, a CWP (I assume that's what you meant by a firearms permit?) isn't required to purchase a firearm, why should anyone, ESPECIALLY someone who ISN'T BUYING THE FIREARM have to show one?

This.

BenMara · Sep 29, 2012

http://youtu.be/ygE7GdpXA8Q

Midnight Raver · Sep 30, 2012

She has some interesting videos and reviews, nice find!

melloyello · Oct 3, 2012

dreamerofdreams said:
melloyello said:

To be devil's advocate....Dealers have the right to refuse to sell firearms to anyone if they feel it is a straw purchase.

If the husband was with her, how does the employee know not know it was really for him and whether it was legal for him to own a firearm.
I will tell you from direct experience when you have a women comes in with a man to purchase a 357 or 44 magnum eyes turn and the questions begin.
And the dealer did ask if it was for me which I said no, and he asked how is he t o know she just won't give it to me when I get home...

Told him I can buy my own, showed my firearms permit and the dealer apologised, said he had to protect himself and the purchase went on.

Click to expand...

...Are you saying it's reasonable to discriminate in firearms purchases based on gender?

Just because it happens doesn't mean it's right. If my husband goes to buy a firearm and I'm with him, how does the salesperson know it's not for me?

Seriously, all this is, is discriminating because "you" think that women can't shoot big calibers. :roll: And a .357 isn't even a big caliber. You've got to be kidding me.

Also, a CWP (I assume that's what you meant by a firearms permit?) isn't required to purchase a firearm, why should anyone, ESPECIALLY someone who ISN'T BUYING THE FIREARM have to show one?

At the time, I lived in GA and it was called a firearms permit/license not exactly the same as the SC CWP but close.
When LE pulls someone over and asks for everyone's ID, do you provide your ID even if you are a passenger?
I pick my battles and in my case I showed GFL to stop the series of questions, could've not presented, but risked the purchase.
My wife loves her Ruger SP101 2.25" 357 magnum, not a large caliber but "hello there" recoil, it was worth it, great price.

When I got my FFL and interviewed by an ATF agent, the agent told what the ATF would consider suspect for a straw purchase.
When an unknown woman comes in to purchase a gun with a man was one of the examples he gave.
ATF considers it the FFL holder's responsibility to determine whether was there is potential for a straw purchase.
He also mentioned that the dealer would go to jail if he/she knowingly sold a weapon in a straw purchase.
Had the same lecture when I got my FFL in SC.
In the current FFL package there is a placemat illustrating straw purchase and a person behind bars.

Is it right? If wrong, will the Government pass a law not to discriminate firearms purchases?
Or is restricting firearms sales to US Citizens what they encourage.

On this forum I've read people writing they would discriminate according to people's appearance, is discriminating on appearance right?
Was it because it was a women or her appearance in handling the weapon, from the Blaze article, "He said that I didn?t hold it right..."

Hope this wasn't directed at me, "discriminating because "you" think that women can't shoot big calibers."

Tigerstripe · Oct 3, 2012

ok, im not understanding this.

what is a straw purchase?

i have had dealers tell me i can do anything i want with it after its mine.(papers confirmed, money paid) and that is how it is. what is wrong with buying an AR you find for $500., take it to a gun show and sell it for $1000.?

if straw purchase means selling to someone you know cant legally own a gun then i understand but thats not what im hearing here.

thehammer69 · Oct 3, 2012

Straw purchase is purposely buying a gun for another person because that person either can't pass the background check or wants to avoid it.

Tigerstripe · Oct 3, 2012

so,we all knew buying for a criminal is a crime.

if you are not doing that, you are filling out the paperwork, paying for the gun, in AMERICA who can accuse you of committing a crime?

melloyello · Oct 4, 2012

Tigerstripe said:
ok, im not understanding this.

what is a straw purchase?

i have had dealers tell me i can do anything i want with it after its mine.(papers confirmed, money paid) and that is how it is. what is wrong with buying an AR you find for $500., take it to a gun show and sell it for $1000.?

if straw purchase means selling to someone you know cant legally own a gun then i understand but thats not what im hearing here.

In this case you are reselling a gun, not purchasing directly for someone else.

http://www.dontlie.org/FAQ.cfm
What is a straw purchase?

A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her. It is highly illegal and punishable by a $250,000 fine and 10 years in prison.

Tigerstripe said:
so,we all knew buying for a criminal is a crime.

if you are not doing that, you are filling out the paperwork, paying for the gun, in AMERICA who can accuse you of committing a crime?

Say if you go to the gun show this weekend, purchase a weapon that your neighbor asked for you to so who just can't make it but legally own guns from an FFL dealer, you are making a straw purchase.

http://www.atf.gov/training/firearms/ffl-learning-theater/episode-4.html

a straw purchase occurs even when the actual purchaser is not a prohibited person. The crime committed is knowingly making a false statement on the Form 4473 indicating that the straw purchaser is the actual purchaser, when this is not the case.
---------------------------------------------

You have to be the actual purchaser, if you gift a weapon to someone else, family/friends etc, you were still the purchaser as long as there are no exchanges on the gift (money, barter, etc.)

Say your brother, friend, neighbor or contractor fixed your roof (labor and materials).
You went and bought them a gun from a dealer and gave it to him in lieu of payment - straw purchase.

armaborealis · Oct 4, 2012

This sounds like one more reason not to buy from Walmart.

Mello -- it sounds like BS to me. You hit the nail on the head: an FFL cannot KNOWINGLY sell to a straw purchaser. I don't see how this situation fits that at all. My wife and I have gone together to buy firearms before. It is not a big deal. Buying firearms in their own name is what empowered women do. It isn't like the couple was talking about how the dude used to beat his ex-wife or had a felony or was just getting out of narcotics anonymous rehab.

If an FFL pulled this kind of BS on my wife, we'd try to sort it out with the manager. If that failed then I'd spread the word about the cruddy store far and wide on social media, write to the NSSF, and consider writing a complaint to the ATF as well. Women are the fastest growing segment of new buyers and they are CRITICAL to the survival of the shooting sports in a social and political way. When mom gets a firearm the whole family goes shooting and that translates to critical support for the 2A.

The is 'Merica, for goodness sakes; our women can handle fighting calibers and don't need to be cloistered in Burkhas clutching air rifles.

To blow away more stereotypes, the current argument in our house over calibers is going like this:
- I want matching AR-15s in 5.56 and G19s/M&Ps in 9mm
- My wife wants matching M1As in 308 and 1911s in 45 (assuming she can't get a 10 mm Glock).

Tigerstripe · Oct 4, 2012

i guess you still dont get my last question.

the lady was going to buy a shotgun. if she is legally allowed, who says that is a straw purchase? doesnt matter if a felon with his orange jumpsuit is with her. someone is supposed to do the governments job and read her mind?

the ATF telling a dealer not to sell guns to a person, that can legally buy a gun, on a hunch is sort of bad for business isnt it?

Glockrunner · Oct 4, 2012

Tigerstripe said:
i guess you still dont get my last question.

the lady was going to buy a shotgun. if she is legally allowed, who says that is a straw purchase? doesnt matter if a felon with his orange jumpsuit is with her. someone is supposed to do the governments job and read her mind?

the ATF telling a dealer not to sell guns to a person, that can legally buy a gun, on a hunch is sort of bad for business isnt it?

Most businesses still have a RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE. They don't have to sell you a firearm or nay other product for that matter. And then they can have you removed if they don't like your behavior. It is their right to exercise when they choose.

Is it good for business, yes it is and most often like you, the decision comes from a gut feeling.

Tigerstripe · Oct 5, 2012

never mind

dreamerofdreams · Oct 5, 2012

Glockrunner said:
Tigerstripe said:

i guess you still dont get my last question.

the lady was going to buy a shotgun. if she is legally allowed, who says that is a straw purchase? doesnt matter if a felon with his orange jumpsuit is with her. someone is supposed to do the governments job and read her mind?

the ATF telling a dealer not to sell guns to a person, that can legally buy a gun, on a hunch is sort of bad for business isnt it?

Click to expand...

Most businesses still have a RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE. They don't have to sell you a firearm or nay other product for that matter. And then they can have you removed if they don't like your behavior. It is their right to exercise when they choose.

Is it good for business, yes it is and most often like you, the decision comes from a gut feeling.

Actually, they do NOT have the right to refuse service IF that decision is based only on gender, as it is in this case. Just like they can't refuse service based only on race.