Observations

[NL7CO]

After observing the three gun match this past weekend, I’m just starting to understand what I don’t understand.

PISTOL. I was debating between my H&K .45 USPC and one of the 1911’s in the safe. I believe that the hot holstering possibilities now make the H&K the best choice. Prior to hot holstering, I can chant what I’m doing for the RO to ensure (s)he knows that the gun is safe â€" DE-COCK (de-cock the gun), LOCK (engage the manual safety), CHARGE (reload), HOLSTER (put it away). The 10 rounds in the extended magazine don’t help, but since I want to shoot HM in the future, I might as well get used to it.

SHOTGUN. My 870 is not competitive, but I need it for the aforementioned desire to shoot HM.

CARBINE. I used to think that I was locked out of HM since no one makes a left handed AR in .308 but a comment by Mike (irons_shooter) about him thinking about a left handed Benalli, and why, got me to thinking ( a very dangerous thing for me to do!!). Last night, during reloading drills with my Stag-15, I noticed something. I’ll try this in “right hand” to see if I can get my point across. Imagine that you are shooting a stage and your right-ejecting carbine stops working. Your first action is usually to dismount the gun and rotate the gun to the left (counterclockwise) to visually inspect the ejection port. When you determine that you are empty, you rotate the gun clockwise 180 degrees while releasing the empty and grabbing a full magazine. Now, if you were shooting a left-ejecting gun, you would lower the gun while turning it slightly clockwise to see the ejection port and it is already in the position you need it in for that famous smooth, lightning fast reload. Went to see a friend and walked him through my observation and he is now looking at building a left-ejecting top end for his AR.

OPTICS. My EOTech 522 and 3x magnifier will work nicely until I’m in HM, which is iron sights only.

BELT. Inner belt / outer belt is definitely the way to go.

POUCHES. Saw several shooter with reconfigurable pouches. I forgot to ask who made the male-female easy exchange feature, so hopefully someone will chime in here with some information.

AMMO. My IPSC major .45 LSWC loads are fine. Whatever runs the best in the carbine is also fine. What loads do most of you run for Birdshot? Somehow, I don’t think that the 1500 #9 Skeet loads are going to do me much good.

MATCH SETUP. I think that I need to come help set stages each month so that I can ask lots of questions.

Comments appreciated.

Don

 

[mike cyrwus]

A few biased answers for ya.

PISTOL.Pistols are cold between stages. No need to tell or chant to the RO, the RO will tell YOU what to do, in regards to your loading and clearing your pistol (and other guns).

CARBINE. I am a lefty and the worlds best kept secret is that leftys enjoy certain advantages with RH guns.
More so with the SG than the rifle, but still a definite trainable advantage.

OPTICS. Run your eoltech w/o the 3x and run it in iron sight division. Ox dots are legal there.

BELT. I like wilderness belts; inner outers are too fragile for running around like a crazy man.

POUCHES. Those pouches with brackets are from safariland.

AMMO. walmart federal bulk packs work fine.

MATCH SETUP. Yes, you need to come!

 

[Wall]

PISTOL. I was debating between my H&K .45 USPC and one of the 1911’s in the safe. I believe that the hot holstering possibilities now make the H&K the best choice. Prior to hot holstering, I can chant what I’m doing for the RO to ensure (s)he knows that the gun is safe â€" DE-COCK (de-cock the gun), LOCK (engage the manual safety), CHARGE (reload), HOLSTER (put it away). The 10 rounds in the extended magazine don’t help, but since I want to shoot HM in the future, I might as well get used to it.
Comments appreciated.

Don

I think you have to run a .45 Single Stack for Heavy Metal, so the HK would be out.

 

[irons_shooter]

Not necessarily. Most matches are going to .45 10-round as the restriction. Many have lifted the 1911 only rule. Having both is a benefit for sure..

Ditch the inner/outer belt idea. I have see too many people leave their belts, with a loaded gun in it at a shooting position. Makes for a short match!

 

[Wall]

Not necessarily. Most matches are going to .45 10-round as the restriction. Many have lifted the 1911 only rule. Having both is a benefit for sure..

cool, good to see some flexibility & only the caliber restrictions.

So for the rifle, is it still Irons only or can you use an optic? How about magnification?

 

[Spiff]

cool, good to see some flexibility & only the caliber restrictions.

So for the rifle, is it still Irons only or can you use an optic? How about magnification?

Depends on the match. There's not any real uniform HM. Some have He-Man iron and He-Man optic divisions.

 

[NL7CO]

A few biased answers for ya.

PISTOL.Pistols are cold between stages. No need to tell or chant to the RO, the RO will tell YOU what to do, in regards to your loading and clearing your pistol (and other guns).

The announcement for January's match specifically said holstering a hot gun. To me, that means inside the stage.

CARBINE. I am a lefty and the worlds best kept secret is that leftys enjoy certain advantages with RH guns.
More so with the SG than the rifle, but still a definite trainable advantage.

Please explain how so on an 870. I reload my LH 870 much faster than my RH 870.

OPTICS. Run your eoltech w/o the 3x and run it in iron sight division. Ox dots are legal there.

Can't use any optics in HM

AMMO. walmart federal bulk packs work fine.

But what shot size do you recommend?

 

[Wall]

The announcement for January's match specifically said holstering a hot gun. To me, that means inside the stage.

yes, during your stage run only.

But what shot size do you recommend?

7 1/2

 

[Chambers]

The announcement for January's match specifically said holstering a hot gun. To me, that means inside the stage.

Please explain how so on an 870. I reload my LH 870 much faster than my RH 870.

Can't use any optics in HM

But what shot size do you recommend?

If you're holstering a hot gun, put it in the condition it was in when it came out of the holster (i.e.: engage the manual safety on a 1911). No voodoo.

I think on the shotgun Mikey was referring to the semis such as the Benelli M1. I'd personally LOVE to have the charging handle, ejection port and controls to the inside. Hot loading would be super quick. I'd be looking and doing rather than manipulating by feel.

The Fed bulk packs are 7 1/2 or whatever. It is bueno for this kind of thing.

 

[irons_shooter]

Optics are a seperate division in HM at most major matches. So, yes you can use optics in HM. In that same division, you can also use an auto 12-gauge.. At OKCGC, in any division 1x only optics compete in "irons" or "limited" division, whether it be Tactical or HM..

BTW, at all of my matches, there will be a not-to-holster-hot option such as a table or something else to ground your SAFE pistol on.

Mike

 

[jtischauser]

After observing the three gun match this past weekend, I’m just starting to understand what I don’t understand.

PISTOL. I was debating between my H&K .45 USPC and one of the 1911’s in the safe. I believe that the hot holstering possibilities now make the H&K the best choice. Prior to hot holstering, I can chant what I’m doing for the RO to ensure (s)he knows that the gun is safe â€" DE-COCK (de-cock the gun), LOCK (engage the manual safety), CHARGE (reload), HOLSTER (put it away). The 10 rounds in the extended magazine don’t help, but since I want to shoot HM in the future, I might as well get used to it.

the majority of major 3 gun matches have gone to only grounding unloaded weapons, no grounding full weapons on safe and definitely no reholstering hot weapons. Mr. Pinto is old school and likes us to have fun when we are safe so he is keeping it ATAS and allows us to reholster hot which like Mr. Chambers said only needs the gun to be returned to the way you got it out cocked and locked on a 1911 and decocked on a DA/SA gun. Telling the RO what you are doing is not a bad practice but it's not required and it WILL take more time.

SHOTGUN. My 870 is not competitive, but I need it for the aforementioned desire to shoot HM.
if you can load that 870 fast it could definitely be competitive with the autos on the longer stages as most guys are lucky to get a round in the gun every 2 seconds or so reloading. Our local HM division is so small I bet you could get the match director to allow autos in the division on a non prize table match. We just want everybody to shoot and have fun. I think that was painfully obvious by letting the Gimp shoot out of the scooter

CARBINE. I used to think that I was locked out of HM since no one makes a left handed AR in .308 but a comment by Mike (irons_shooter) about him thinking about a left handed Benalli, and why, got me to thinking ( a very dangerous thing for me to do!!). Last night, during reloading drills with my Stag-15, I noticed something. I’ll try this in “right hand” to see if I can get my point across. Imagine that you are shooting a stage and your right-ejecting carbine stops working. Your first action is usually to dismount the gun and rotate the gun to the left (counterclockwise) to visually inspect the ejection port. When you determine that you are empty, you rotate the gun clockwise 180 degrees while releasing the empty and grabbing a full magazine. Now, if you were shooting a left-ejecting gun, you would lower the gun while turning it slightly clockwise to see the ejection port and it is already in the position you need it in for that famous smooth, lightning fast reload. Went to see a friend and walked him through my observation and he is now looking at building a left-ejecting top end for his AR.

See Mr. Cyrwus' comments. There are definately advantages to being a lefty on a righty gun. I wouldn't spend extra money for a lefty gun. I'd spend extra money on good sights or a low mass operating system or training as being a lefty puts you at a 3-4% dissadvantage on most stages simply due to stage design favoring right handed shooters .

OPTICS. My EOTech 522 and 3x magnifier will work nicely until I’m in HM, which is iron sights only.
if you are the only HM shooter at our local match you can probably run with or without optics or I bet Mike would make both divisions of HM if you asked. As I said earlier the goal us to get shooter to shoot 3 gun. If having optics is more enjoyable to you and will help you have fun and shoot more I bet it will be allowed in some division. Heck with a little practice you could do just fine with HM optics setup in tac optics.

BELT. Inner belt / outer belt is definitely the way to go.

I couldn't agree more. It is definitely the most popular way to go out on the big boys tour. Mike, Mike, and Kurt like the old school tactical belt setup where your pants fall down and everybody laughs at your junk while you change your setup between stages. Apperantly one time at a match long long ago somebody caught their outer Velcro belt on a prop and tire it completely off and they had no ammo for the rest of the stage. They probably didn't have a keeper on the belt and they definitely didn't have zip ties holding them together like I sometimes do when there are lots of tight obstacles or prone movement/crawling. If you shoot uspsa pistol you will buy a inner/outer for sure anyways so try it in 3 gun before you spend an extra $50 in a wilderness belt. Of course the wilderness belts are nice and I own one too. Plus you can't use the inner/outer setup for idpa so you can use it in 3 gun and idpa if you go that route. I have both belts as one would expect being the gear queer that I am. I like the inner outer setup so much I have 6 of them or so.

POUCHES. Saw several shooter with reconfigurable pouches. I forgot to ask who made the male-female easy exchange feature, so hopefully someone will chime in here with some information.

That system you saw Dianna and Seeklander using is the new safariland ELS. It's creating a lot io buzz right now. The only problem I see with it is that it's not 100% flexible in where you can out everything since the little keeper deals gotta go in line with the holes that are spaced every few inches apart. The other thing is that not all of the caddy and pouches out there have been adapted to the holder mechanism yet. I plan to test one once the make an attachment device forgive MME caddies I run. This belt system has some serious potential and probably will be the go to belt in the future. You still have to buy all the pouches and holsters seperately this is just a means to keep and interchange all that stuff on your belt faster/easier

AMMO. My IPSC major .45 LSWC loads are fine. Whatever runs the best in the carbine is also fine. What loads do most of you run for Birdshot? Somehow, I don’t think that the 1500 #9 Skeet loads are going to do me much good. I run walmart 7 1/2 bulk in local matches and Qunchester AA in the bug ones. The bug thing with an auto especially is that you check each shell before you put it in your belt to make sure it's not boogeres up on the crimp. If the crimp gets damaged from dropping a shell or whatever it may not feed.

MATCH SETUP. I think that I need to come help set stages each month so that I can ask lots of questions. You will learn a lot during setup and get to know the great guys that run the matches. Lots to be learned there like dont bend over to pick up a target stand in frintbif anybody named Mike

Comments appreciated.

Don

 

[irons_shooter]

Jesse,
I love the iPhone autospell words in your post.
I do have a problem though with one of your comments..

How would you know what you learn during setup??

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

[Wall]

We need to pass out some special decoder rings to decipher Jesse's posts. :lol:

 

[jtischauser]

Damn I even went back thru that one and tried to fix things. I guess stupid dummy heads like me need mote than just a smart phone. Any idea when the really smart phones are coming out?

I totally would help with setup if I lived closer. Sorry man!

 

[Wall]

Damn I even went back thru that one and tried to fix things. I guess stupid dummy heads like me need mote than just a smart phone. Any idea when the really smart phones are coming out?

I totally would help with setup if I lived closer. Sorry man!

Dude, any closer and the we'd be using your gun safe for the rifle rack.

 

[bsdubois00]

Damn JT. You live like 5 min from OKCGC. I don't think Tara will be up for buying the house right across the street but that's just my 2 cents