Kleck says 1-2 million x a year, civilians with guns stop crimes.

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yousa

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Do you believe those numbers? Do you know how many guys per year are shot while committing a crime? Do you read the "Armed Citizen" column in the NRA mag? Ever read Jim Cirillo's book on gunfighting? If 1 million crimes are stopped by civilians with a gun, then only 1% of the time is anyone hit with a bullet. Cause only about 10,000 guys per year are shot while committing a crime. just the sight of your gun works, over 80% of the time.

The Dept of Justice's Annual Crime Survey says that over 65% of the attacks are not made with guns. That means that you'd better not shoot them at a range of more than 10 ft. The FBI's Uniform Crime Report says that over half of the gunfights occur at ranges under 10 ft. 3/4 are less than 15 ft. 90% are less than 10 yds. And these numbers are very much skewed to the longer ranges of cop shootings. How much practicing, (live fire) do you need to do to hit the chest of 1-2 guys at 10 ft? Dryfire, laserlite, and Airsoft suffices for about 90% of realistic pistol skill, if you are not a SWAT cop. The latter normally can bring longarms, too. The .22lr conversion can handle at least 3/4 of the relevant rifle stuff.

Speed of ccw draw is paramount, and very few have anything like real ability at it. When they find out that they aint fast enough, they end up like George Zimmerman. Which is to say, on their butts, getting their heads beaten in. :-) Very few people can react to the timer's beep, make a ccw draw from a belt rig and hit (,at arm's length ranges, even), in 3/4 second. From 10 ft away ("stuff" starts that close or closer) a guy can be at arm's length in 3/4 second. That's why I advocate front pants pocket ccw. With your hand on the gun, it doesn't take much practice to react, draw and hit at arm's length in 3/4 second, and a really fast man can do so in .50 second. Since just the sight of your gun usually works to make the attacker stop, that's the best answer, for realistic defense. A super swift ccw draw and SHOW the (ready gun). You can neither shoot nor intimidate anyone with a gun that you don't have visible yet. Both IPSC and IDPA are little more realistic than PPC or Bullesye. The ranges are much too long, the time frames are too slow, and there's way too many targets in most strings of fire.

35 years ago, before the electronic timer became commonplace, we needed longer ranges and more targets, to separate out who was 1st place and who was 20th place. That hasn't been true for a long time now. So how about some realistic tests of ability, instead of Rambo baloney? How about learning some hand to hand skills, to "buy" you enough time to get your gun "into play" ?

Have you ever timed your draw and hit, with gloves and a heavy coat on (on top of your ccw garment)? 3 seconds, to make such a draw and hit the chest, at arm's length, is pretty good. Men can charge you and smack you good, from 10 yds, in 3 seconds. But if you've "palmed" your rig from your pants pocket to your coat pocket, and have your (ungloved" hand in your coat pockets, the ccw draw and hit (at arm's length) is still .50-.75 second. Since half of the US gets plenty cold for several months of the year, you should think about that.

Heat can make you remove a garment that normally covers your belt rig. Decorum, wind, rain, cold can make you fasten your coat. So much for the 'little finger brush" clearing of the ccw garment, eh? :-) If you hit somebody with a bullet, it's going to cost you about 50k $ to stay out of jail and not be sued for everything you ever make. It might take 2 million $, too. Just ask George. He aint past the lawsuits yet, and it's been over a year. He'll be under threat for many years yet, believe it.
 
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yousa said:
Speed of ccw draw is paramount, and very few have anything like real ability at it. When they find out that they aint fast enough, they end up like George Zimmerman. Which is to say, on their butts, getting their heads beaten in. :-) Very few people can react to the timer's beep, make a ccw draw from a belt rig and hit (,at arm's length ranges, even), in 3/4 second. From 10 ft away ("stuff" starts that close or closer) a guy can be at arm's length in 3/4 second. That's why I advocate front pants pocket ccw. With your hand on the gun, it doesn't take much practice to react, draw and hit at arm's length in 3/4 second, and a really fast man can do so in .50 second.
im still curious as to why you would allow a threat to charge you from 10 ft away? its not a hitting drill I did in highschool football. MOVE!!!!!!!
 
yousa said:
Do you believe those numbers? Do you know how many guys per year are shot while committing a crime? Do you read the "Armed Citizen" column in the NRA mag? Ever read Jim Cirillo's book on gunfighting? If 1 million crimes are stopped by civilians with a gun, then only 1% of the time is anyone hit with a bullet. Cause only about 10,000 guys per year are shot while committing a crime. just the sight of your gun works, over 80% of the time.

The Dept of Justice's Annual Crime Survey says that over 65% of the attacks are not made with guns. That means that you'd better not shoot them at a range of more than 10 ft. The FBI's Uniform Crime Report says that over half of the gunfights occur at ranges under 10 ft. 3/4 are less than 15 ft. 90% are less than 10 yds. And these numbers are very much skewed to the longer ranges of cop shootings. How much practicing, (live fire) do you need to do to hit the chest of 1-2 guys at 10 ft? Dryfire, laserlite, and Airsoft suffices for about 90% of realistic pistol skill, if you are not a SWAT cop. The latter normally can bring longarms, too. The .22lr conversion can handle at least 3/4 of the relevant rifle stuff.

Speed of ccw draw is paramount, and very few have anything like real ability at it. When they find out that they aint fast enough, they end up like George Zimmerman. Which is to say, on their butts, getting their heads beaten in. :-) Very few people can react to the timer's beep, make a ccw draw from a belt rig and hit (,at arm's length ranges, even), in 3/4 second. From 10 ft away ("stuff" starts that close or closer) a guy can be at arm's length in 3/4 second. That's why I advocate front pants pocket ccw. With your hand on the gun, it doesn't take much practice to react, draw and hit at arm's length in 3/4 second, and a really fast man can do so in .50 second. Since just the sight of your gun usually works to make the attacker stop, that's the best answer, for realistic defense. A super swift ccw draw and SHOW the (ready gun). You can neither shoot nor intimidate anyone with a gun that you don't have visible yet. Both IPSC and IDPA are little more realistic than PPC or Bullesye. The ranges are much too long, the time frames are too slow, and there's way too many targets in most strings of fire.

35 years ago, before the electronic timer became commonplace, we needed longer ranges and more targets, to separate out who was 1st place and who was 20th place. That hasn't been true for a long time now. So how about some realistic tests of ability, instead of Rambo baloney? How about learning some hand to hand skills, to "buy" you enough time to get your gun "into play" ?

Have you ever timed your draw and hit, with gloves and a heavy coat on (on top of your ccw garment)? 3 seconds, to make such a draw and hit the chest, at arm's length, is pretty good. Men can charge you and smack you good, from 10 yds, in 3 seconds. But if you've "palmed" your rig from your pants pocket to your coat pocket, and have your (ungloved" hand in your coat pockets, the ccw draw and hit (at arm's length) is still .50-.75 second. Since half of the US gets plenty cold for several months of the year, you should think about that.

Heat can make you remove a garment that normally covers your belt rig. Decorum, wind, rain, cold can make you fasten your coat. So much for the 'little finger brush" clearing of the ccw garment, eh? :-) If you hit somebody with a bullet, it's going to cost you about 50k $ to stay out of jail and not be sued for everything you ever make. It might take 2 million $, too. Just ask George. He aint past the lawsuits yet, and it's been over a year. He'll be under threat for many years yet, believe it.
I am confused... I understand all these statistics, and have seen them all before, but what point are you trying to make?
 
Sure hope this mythical bad guy don't get in the way in between the time we leave the match and go get some bar b cue. If he gets in the way of my mustard biscuit he is going to thing kaiser blade or like Feegee calls it a sling blade.
 

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