Indiana says OK to shooting LEO's

[fiundagner]

So last year the Indiana State Supreme Court ruled that law enforcement officers could enter your home with or without cause, no warrant or reason required. So this year they pass a law that says you can shoot law enforcement officers in your home illegally. The article is heavily slanted toward antigun sentiment based on the quotes, and i am sure this law will be used by the antis as a example of why we need more gun control.

http://presstv.com/usdetail/245679.html

a quick breakdown of the law
(i) A person is justified in using reasonable force against a public servant if the person reasonably believes the force is necessary to:
(1) protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force;
(2) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling or occupied motor vehicle; or
(3) prevent or terminate the public servant's unlawful trespass on or criminal interference with property lawfully in the person's possession, lawfully in possession of a member of the person's immediate family, or belonging to a person whose property the person has authority to protect.

I am quite frankly, divided on this. On one hand we have a spate of warrants served at wrong addresses, ?swatting?, cops threatening to execute suspects in cuffs, and family dogs killed because a cop couldn?t tell the difference between a border collie and a pit bull. This has begun to approach epidemic proportions. Frankly, law enforcement has, in several ways, gotten to big for its britches. In several of these incidents the wronged homeowners have been told, effectively, ?sorry, but it sucks to be you. You shouldn?t live near a crack house, shouldn?t have a similar address, shouldn?t own a dog, etc etc etc?. And frankly if they aren?t supposed to be in your home you should have the right to resist them whether they be criminal or cop. And this is coming from a cops son, and someone who believe in law enforcement and the justice system the way a Southern Baptist believes in god and fried chicken.

At the same time I see where this is going to make it more dangerous to be a law enforcement officer. People are going to use this law to justify shooting at LEO?s who are engaged in their correct procedures, drug dealers and gang members are going to think it?s ok to take random pot shots at cops, and your average domestic disturbance call danger level just got ratcheted up.

In the end scream as you will, but hear me out. I can only see this as a good thing. I know that the vast, overwhelming, majority of LEO?s just want to do what needs to be done. And I know that it is the mistakes that get all the news coverage (you?ll never see ?Cops did their jobs right? as a news headline). And I know that it is a few bad cops that make all cops look bad (you only have to be told once ?the law is what I say it is? to get a bad taste from all cops). But the few bad cops who overreach their authority, or believe they are exempt from the laws they seek to enforce, or who don?t take the time to do their jobs properly (really, is it that hard to make sure you have the right address on a warrant when you?re going door kicking, or to apologize when you get it wrong) have made laws such as this necessary.

Let the screaming commence.

PS: The next time you see a police officer think about the thankless, dangerous, and hard job they have and consider thanking them for it, because, at least in Indiana, it just got that much harder and more dangerous

 

[thehammer69]

I'm sure some people will hate me for this. But um in 100% agreement of the law. I'm quite tired of police over stepping their authority. If the police don't like this. Tough elephant dung, they don't have to be a police officer. There are other career choices out there, and I'm not gonna support some overzealous assholes who overstep their authority.

I would love more states to make these laws.

Commence the attacks upon me.

 

[C_Carson]

It wouldn't be so dangerous for said cops if they would stop using no knock warrants and getting the wrong house. If the cops are there illegally, they should be treated like any other illegal intruder, and not afforded special protection just because they work for the state.

As I see it, Indiana has recognized our natural right to defend our homes from violent aggressors, badge or not.

 

[carsontech]

The Indiana government wants it's subjects to think it recognizes their natural right of self defense.

I don't think this bill is going help anyone in Indiana. Governments don't like losing money to us peons. If someone defends themselves against an intruder that turns out to be an officer, the government will cover it's butt by making something up or taking something out of context.

In my opinion, this bill is just an illusion of liberty. It's exists to make the subjects of Indiana think every thing is "OK".

 

[armaborealis]

Indiana's supreme court overturned centuries of common law precedent in Barnes v. State. THe people (by which I mean people under Anglo common law, including US citizens) have had the right to resist unlawful state action by force if necessary since 1215 AD. The US Supreme Court explicitly upheld this right as late as 1948, writing "?One has an undoubted right to resist an unlawful arrest, and courts will uphold the right of resistance in proper cases" (US v. Di Re).

The decision from the case is located here, and the dissent makes a powerful argument:
http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pd ... 101shd.pdf

Realize that in South Carolina, and probably just about every other state in the union, there is a right to resist unlawful police entry or arrest with reasonable force (with caveats similar to those of most self defense situations). The legislature in Indiana as well as the governor merely acted to bring Indiana's law back into accordance with the rest of the US, checking what they saw as an inappropriate use of judicial power.

Of course, the media and anti-gunners (but I repeat myself) are not representing the nuances of this law properly. Its being presented as some radical new crazy policy as opposed to a truly conservative affirmation of nearly a millenium of common law experience.

 

[Tigerstripe]

http://youtu.be/RVmGWLsn0iM

judge for yourself

 

[C_Carson]

You've done it now. Henry is going to come in here and accuse us all of cop bashing. :roll:

I couldn't get past five minutes of that video...

 

[Tigerstripe]

you have to watch it all

 

[C_Carson]

I really couldn't. It literally made my vomit reflex (which is already pretty active, thanks to being pregnant) go into hyper-drive. Plus, I need to avoid getting my blood pressure up right now.

But trust me, I am no stranger to the content of this kind of video.

 

[John Canuck]

I don't see this making anyone's job more dangerous. If you aren't in the process of kicking down the wrong door (or using a chain saw) you shouldn't have a problem. This law wouldn't have been necessary if the ISC hadn't determined that there were no legal remedies to the victims of the minor inconvenience of a violation of your 4A rights. Who needs to be secure from unreasonable searches and seizures (or unreasonably getting shot repeatedly while watching the tv in your underwear) anyway?

I hope the people of Indiana are ready for the para-militarization to get ramped up.

There is a pretty good write up here:
http://www.naturalnews.com/036176_India ... raids.html

 

[bigfutz]

http://youtu.be/RVmGWLsn0iM
judge for yourself

What's in that video? I think they took it down.

 

[Red Hat]

Try it again, it's working fine for me.

 

[HHB Guns]

You've done it now. Henry is going to come in here and accuse us all of cop bashing. :roll:

Just couldnt resist could you? I'm not saying a word.... :roll:

 

[C_Carson]

You've done it now. Henry is going to come in here and accuse us all of cop bashing. :roll:

Just couldnt resist could you? I'm not saying a word.... :roll:

I don't know what you're talking about. :halo:

And if you're not saying anything; why did you post? :?:

Honestly, Henry, as a LEO, where you stand on that video of police brutality? Where do you stand on Indiana's ruling that citizens have the right to defend themselves from unlawful police entry? No sarcasm here, I genuinely want to know.

 

[HHB Guns]

I did not watch this video. I am sure its no different than others I have seen. all I can say is a few bad apples will make it in sometimes. They make us all look bad. Any police officer that lets his ego get the best of him and does something wrong should be punished like any other citizen.

I have not read the Indiana law in detail but I sounds very similar to sc law in a way. we have a law that says a citizen can resist an unlawful arrest up to the point of deadly force.. .Bottom line. a police officer must make 100% probable cause based on facts before getting a warrant or making an arrest. If an officer lies and gets an illigel warrant or makes an unlawful entry I feel like a homeowner should be able to protect themselves. ...I would have to read the law in detail which I am unable to at this time. i am on the road back from sav picking up my son.

 

[mcdaniel]

I did not watch this video. I am sure its no different than others I have seen. all I can say is a few bad apples will make it in sometimes. They make us all look bad. Any police officer that lets his ego get the best of him and does something wrong should be punished like any other citizen.

I have not read the Indiana law in detail but I sounds very similar to sc law in a way. we have a law that says a citizen can resist an unlawful arrest up to the point of deadly force.. .Bottom line. a police officer must make 100% probable cause based on facts before getting a warrant or making an arrest. If an officer lies and gets an illigel warrant or makes an unlawful entry I feel like a homeowner should be able to protect themselves. ...I would have to read the law in detail which I am unable to at this time. i am on the road back from sav picking up my son.

And I think that most would agree that when the state makes a habit of hiring a combination of people who become LEOs because of a love for the job and a bunch of ingrates, the ingrates will largely determine the level of respect afforded to the job. Its unfortunate, but its part of working for the gov.