First AR - BCM or Colt?

[MCA]

Greetings and thank you, in advance, for your experiences and expertise (my first post here)!

I have researched this, for what seems like months, until my eyes blur and now I just have to ask.

While proficient in pistols (Glocks) and shotguns (Benelli) I am relatively new to the realm of ?Black Rifles? and am ready to purchase one. With my budget I have narrowed down my choices to either a BCM Mod 0, BCM Mod 2, Colt 6920 or a Colt 6940. I would like to purchase a complete rifle rather than build or assemble one due to my inexperience with this platform and a possible manufacturer warranty but maybe I am making this too big of an issue?

What I want to do with it:
1. HD
2. Range work
3. Possibly work my way up to some fun 3-gun type and/or other competitions.

What I would put on it:
1. Keep it sleek and simple?sling, light and optic after mastering the irons.

What my goal would be:
1. Become proficient+ with the platform and?
2. My Dad is a retired Navy SEAL/UDT Frogman and I want to out shoot him! You would think at 70 years old he would be losing something shooting-wise but it isn?t happening. I would ultimately like to shoot 1-3? groups at 100 yards.

My questions are as follows:
1. Is a free float barrel (Colt 6940) necessary for someone like me?
2. Are the quad rail?s (BCM Mod 2) uncomfortable to grasp barehanded when shooting? (I REALLY like the idea of the BCM Mod 0 with some $119.00 folding rear sights). A Quad type rail even necessary for my needs?
****3. Is there something I am missing when looking at how these two rifles are made/manufactured that places one above the other? They seem almost identical albeit Colt has an awesome history of reliability and quality, as does BCM from my research.

I hope this novice type question is not too irritating. I am just looking for a little push in one direction from others that have ?been there and done that? already. A big thanks for your time and for reading. It is greatly appreciated.

Cheers....Mike

 

[Shrapnel762]

Wal-Mart in Florence has Colt 6920 for $1k but, they also had a Sig M400 with Magpul furniture and mag for less than $900. If I wasn't set on building a dissipator after finishing my SBR, I'd be all over that Sig!

I have a BCM upper. Only bad thing I'd say about it is that my model1sales stuff has better parkerizing, which I thought was strange.

 

[Tigerstripe]

some may think the name is overrated, but i like a Colt. once you build your own, in my opinion, you wont see much difference, PSA, and the rest. i bought a new S&W MP-15 and it is as good as the rest. i made it an SBR. i do look for chrome barrel.

pick what you can afford and you will be happy. there probably will be another, later.

 

[MCA]

Thanks for the replies Shrapnel762 and Tigerstripe. I appreciate your time.

I am hoping to find a BCM rifle but would be more than happy with the Colt if I can't find one. Almost a 50-50...just hoping someone would have some personal experience to share regarding one or both. And your right Tigerstripe, already looking at a build for #2.

Thanks again and cheers to a nice weekend.

--Mike

 

[armaborealis]

I have a 14.5" bbl + pinned & welded FH BCM midlength upper with a LMT BCG on a lower I built myself (Stag LPK, MOE furniture, Aero lower -- nothing fancy). I took it to a four day carbine class at Front Sight. I had it a bit too dry but after dumping some CLP in it ran flawlessly for four days and a few hundred rounds under dirty dusty desert conditions without a cleaning. While I do run a bore snake through it after each range day, it certainly doesn't get cleaned every single trip. I have had less than a half dozen malfunctions or so over the course of a few thousand rounds now. Several were attributable to running the gun too dry (added CLP and fixed instantly), several were due to a questionable mag, and 1-2 were unexplained malfunctions.

I've also shot it at an Appleseed-style (similar to High Power) event including some steel at 400 yards. With XM193 from the prone unsupported and sitting positions I was getting 4 MOA groups or better fairly consistently with irons and any fault was mine, not the rifle's. From the bench, zeroing slow fire, with XM193 I have gotten right around 1.5 MOA consistently -- sometimes a little better. I suspect that with premium ammo the upper could easily manage under a MOA.

So, I have been very happy with my BCM middie upper.

With your goals you may want to try a less expensive but still decent quality option first. For example, Palmetto State ARmory has had some great deals on mil-spec quality rifles lately. Learn to shoot the rifle well. Then, if the rifle is not giving you the level of performance you are up to, sell the upper (or whole thing) and get a higher quality one. Rifles and uppers hold their value pretty well so while it may cost you $100-200 to swap out it is probably well worth it.

Another option to save cost is a partial DIY.
- Buy the lower, complete and built. FFL required. (probably $200-250)
- Buy the upper, complete, mail ordered to your door (example: PSA has one for $300, I saw them going for $249 and $279 fairly recently as well -- but this would be the place to spend the $$$ on BCM)
- Buy the bolt carrier group, complete, again mailed to your door ($125 or so -- I like LMT and BCM but they are a but pricier)
- Buy the charging handle, mail ordered ($20).
- Buy the optic or sights of your choice ($60 or so for quality irons)

Assembly will be simple and no more complex than field stripping for cleaning is. If you are unable or unwilling to figure out how to assemble those parts then the AR platform may not be the right choice for you; you have to break down the rifle at least that far to clean it.

You will likely save some money, if nothing else on Pitcairn-Roberts taxes. I think you could put the above parts together for ~$600-750 or so depending on how patient you are for sales. That would personally be my price comparison. If a "all in one" off the shelf rifle is going to run you over a grand then I'd think about what you're actually getting for literally twice the price (that's an expensive warranty!). The BCM Mod 4s are running around $1350 from a quick search. I'd probably prefer to have a $700 rifle and a case of ammunition and a carbine class than a $1350 rifle, personally... Or, a $700 rifle, a case of ammo, and a nice aimpoint PRO optic. If you decide you want to "upgrade" on something beyond the baseline components then spend the extra money on either (A) the upper or (B) the trigger group. The upper is the most critical part of the rifle for accuracy and reliability anyways so that is where to spend the money, and I don't think you would go wrong with BCM.

I would not worry too much about the warranty, personally. If you part it out like this from reputable manufacturers then each individual part will have a warranty. If the BCG fails then go back and get another. If the barrel fails then go back and get another. If you buy from a reputable manufacturer then I suspect most people will not put that much abuse on the rifle anyways.

 

[armaborealis]

PIle on -- I would not worry about Free Float too much. Free Floating is good when you want to wring out every last bit of accuracy, especially when slung up. Can you shoot 4 MOA consistently, prone, unsupported, with regular ball ammo? Do you use a loop sling? If not, then spend your $$$ on more ammo and training before you bother free floating. I have been shooting my AR for awhile and am only now looking at building an upper with a free float, and that is for a High Power Service Rifle that I plan on using with a taunt sling.

 

[MCA]

What a great post and reply armaborealis! Exactly the type of information I was looking for. I really appreciate you taking the time with such a detailed reply. The information was quite informative for an AR beginner like myself.

I really like the idea of the "partial DIY" direction and the ability to build a nice platform with money left over for ammo, a class, sling, etc. You have given me a lot to think about. Time to start researching sales for a build. I'm excited about this and in no big rush.

Thanks again for your time.

--Mike

 

[HOLY DIVER]

Wow you got your self a ton of info. I personally prefer a Colt just because if you want to sell it later on more people know "colt"

 

[armaborealis]

Wow you got your self a ton of info. I personally prefer a Colt just because if you want to sell it later on more people know "colt"

Yeah, this is a good point. You may hold better resale value with a rifle bought "whole" from a manufacturer, especially if you are selling to someone who doesn't know very much about black rifles, especially if the warranty is transferable and you can use that as a selling point. Then again, people that don't know much about black rifles probably won't care about the pedigree beyond the roll mark on the lower receiver, which is entirely cosmetic. If you later decide you want to sell, though, based on the power of the internet and the fact that only the lower receiver is legally a firearm, it is easy to sell off the upper/BCG/stock to people who are more informed and then get new stuff to upgrade. If you are willing to sell on GunBroker, AR15.com, M4.net, etc etc, though, then people who do know something about black rifles have a pretty good idea of the value of, say, a BCM upper or a LMT Bolt Carrier Group. For example, a quick search and I found BCM uppers used going for $400 and bolt carrier groups for $100 (just the carrier, not with bolt/firing pin which run another $40 or so).

I would question how much resale value is worth to you. Again, I'd prefer to have $700 in a rifle that I can sell for $500-600 or so along with an optic that I can put on any other rifle rather than a $1350 name brand rifle that will sell used for a grand or so used if I'm lucky. Additionally, one of the great things about ARs is the ease of upgrading them. THe uppers and lowers are totally modular, so if you later decide you want a 20" tackdriver freefloated barrel, then you can just buy a new upper and put it on your existing lower. So you may not find yourself wanting to sell the whole rifle at all.

I don't mean to drive you away from your dream. If you really want that nice Colt rollstamp or the ease of a top-tier BCM ready to roll, go for it. But for your application I think you'd be better suited with a $700 option that leaves room in the budget for an AIMPOINT PRO and a rail-mounted Streamlight and a case of ammo and a class. Once you learn more about how you feel about the platform then you can decide whether to upgrade either the whole thing or just certain parts... Then again, if money is no issue, get a BCM/Colt, also get an optic and a light, and heck, send me an ACOG too!

Oh, and finally--if your budget includes a Colt or BCM you may want to check out the Sig 556. It is not an AR design, however, it takes AR magazines and is in the same caliber. It is basically a swiss-built rifle that uses a piston design like an AK. I have heard great things about their reliability. They are harder to customize but if you don't fancy the idea of cleaning your rifle every 400-1000 rounds then the Sig may be an option to get AK reliability in a 5.56 package. I personally am vested in the AR platform due to training/muscle memory but if I were not, and I wasn't terribly interested in customizing the platform, and I had the $$$, I'd give the Sig a look.

 

[11B3XCIB]

You really can't go wrong with either BCM or Colt. Anyone in the AR world will easily recognize the brand if you ever resell it, but both are of such high quality, I doubt you'll ever need/want to.

If you want a rail, I'd stick with a drop in quad, finding the lightest one you can. To keep the grip comfortable yet low profile, get a set of ladder rail covers by Magpul. They are silicon rubber and pop right into place, and you can cut to fit around lights or grips, etc, like so:

For optics:
Depends on if you want magnification or not. You absolutely can't go wrong with an Aimpoint for a red dot. They make a very affordable model, the Aimpoint Pro, which usually goes for about $399. Sure, there are cheaper models, but I like the saying: Buy once, Cry once. One battery lasts 30,000 hours, it's tough, dependable, combat proven...you'll never have to replace it unless you run over it with a dump truck (and even then it may still work).

If you want magnification, it really depends on your budget. If you want to stay sub-$500, look at Burris MTAC or TAC30 for affordable 1-4x scopes. If you have the money to go all out, look at Trijicon.

 

[Tigerstripe]

Depends on if you want magnification or not. You absolutely can't go wrong with an Aimpoint for a red dot. They make a very affordable model, the Aimpoint Pro, which usually goes for about $399. Sure, there are cheaper models, but I like the saying: Buy once, Cry once. One battery lasts 30,000 hours, it's tough, dependable, combat proven...you'll never have to replace it unless you run over it with a dump truck (and even then it may still work).

If you want magnification, it really depends on your budget. If you want to stay sub-$500, look at Burris MTAC or TAC30 for affordable 1-4x scopes. If you have the money to go all out, look at Trijicon.
11B3XCIB
Senior Member

i had to go the cheap optics route. i have too many uppers used on the same lower for $400 each. i like your Acog though, 4 of them would be nice.

by the way, i saw those rail covers at wal mart. only had black and they were $10 each. they also have a tube type grip add on with finger groves for a gen 2 glock, $10.

 

[11B3XCIB]

I bought a 3-pack of the rail covers made by Ergo for $20 from PSA. Same deal as Magpuls only slightly cheaper.

The ACOG is amazing, although I probably won't buy another one unless I get a huge deal on it like I did the 1st one. For the build I'm working on, I'd like to find a Primary Arms micro dot; anything else would be over kill since I'm trying to keep this one as light as possible.

 

[MCA]

A ton of great information! A big thanks armaborealis and 11B3XCIB . I have learned a lot from your posts. Wow...had no idea optics were so expensive! That makes a build even that much more attractive.

You have been very helpful. I'm sure I'll be throwing out more questions soon. Thanks again.

--Mike

 

[armaborealis]

Wow...had no idea optics were so expensive!

QUALITY optics are that expensive. For a defensive rifle, don't go cheap... The red dot rocks from 0-50 or 0-75 yards. I've shot mine on steel out to 400 but magnification makes it much easier. The 1-4x magnified optics come into their own in the 75-400 (ish) realm. You can always start with irons and learn to shoot the rifle properly first, too, but eventually you will want an optic. I really like the Aimpoint for lowlight conditions up close -- those under which a defensive carbine is likely to be utilized.

Also don't forget a light. Any defensive carbine needs a light mounted on it, in my opinion. You have got to be able to identify targets under low light conditions. A Streamlight will probably run around a hundred bucks, a SureFire X300 a couple hundred.

Glad to be helpful! I did a ton of research and asked some smart folks before I put together my first AR and it paid off for me nicely. Even so I busted my budget by about $150 as I didn't realize a "complete stripped upper" lacked a charging handle and bolt carrier group!

 

[11B3XCIB]

I would make sure you look through a red dot that's accompanied by a magnifier before you buy it. It's not quite like a real scope...sometimes it can look like a fishbowl bubble.

I have successfully and extremely accurately shot my Aimpoint on pop-up qualification ranges to 300 meters. Beyond that, the dot is larger than your target. It's great for closer quarters work...you can put a full magazine into a 3" hole standing at 25 - 50 meters practicing quick kills...bringing the rifle from the low-read to the high-ready, acquiring the target and pulling off two rounds...you'll be amazed at how easy the Aimpoint, or comparable (Eotech, etc) makes putting multiple rounds on target.


Best advice: Go to a gun store and look through as many optics as they have in stock. At this point, what with all the panic buying, may not be much at all. Depending on where you're located, I'd be happy to meet you at a range and let you look through my ACOG...makes shooting golf balls at 100 yards easy.

 

[Tigerstripe]

now when was the last time you saw a golf ball repetidly hit at 100 yds?

when i did it with your rifle with acog. wow, just pick out a small piece of clay target, bang its gone.

and the target with the simulated distance, i tore a 1nch hole with 30 rds.

nice rifle, 11b

 

[MCA]

A big thank you, once again, for all of your great replies. I have learned a lot from your posts and I obviously have so much more to learn. I really am excited about learning this platform and becoming proficient with it. Since I am too old and broken to race motorcycles anymore I am looking to replace my need to be competitive with myself with this rifle.

@ 11B, tigerstripe and armaborealis...

You have been great. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with me, especially regarding optics. Shooting golfballs at 100 yards?! Sounds like a ton of fun. Thanks as well for the kind offer 11B. Once I get things squared away here on my end I just might take you up on your offer.

And you all are correct of course with the mad rush in this industry. Man, been tough locating a rifle but I finally made my choice and went for it. I purchased a complete rifle from Daniel Defense, a mid-length DD M4 V3. Pricey but it was a generous gift and will be here in two weeks.

Now to grab some magazines, ammo and get going with this new adventure.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers to you and yours and I wish you all the best this Christmas and in 2013.

--Mike

 

[11B3XCIB]

Daniel Defense is high quality. You won't regret it.

 

[Tigerstripe]

first one is DD

im jealous

 

[armaborealis]

Nice work -- a DD will serve you well!

Now stock up on standard capacity magazines. 10 packs of PMAGs for $125 at Brownells. I would hold off on the optic and buy mags first.

A defensive rifle needs six magazines, minimum: two as a ready load (one in the gun/one in a pocket or pouch), two as a spare load sitting in your Terrorist Interdiction Bag or Bail Out Bag or whatever, and two for training and practice you can beat up.

A patrol rifle is 21 mags (again, 7 carried on LBE, 7 in a Bail Out Bag, & 7 spares).

I suspect availability will only get more limited for the forseeable future so if you see a good deal within the next 48 hours... I'd take it. A nice AR without working mags is an expensive single shot bolt gun.