.45 Reloading Issues

dfinan · May 10, 2012

Well been trying to figure out my reloads, and had a ton of stove pipes last week so I finally got to the range today and chrono'ed some rounds heres what I got.

All this is from an HK45 (4.5 inch barrel) I shoot in limited 10.

4.0 Grains Clays 1.26 OAL 230 Grain Berrys Plated .452
Rnd - FPS - PowerFactor
1 - 717 - 164910
2 - 706 - 162380
3 - 706 - 162380
4 - 724 - 166520
5 - 689 - 158470
6 - 689 - 158470
7 - 682 - 156860
8 - 703 - 161690
9 - 710 - 163300

This using the load data out of Hornadays 8th edition book which puts max load at 4.0 grains for LRN (This matchs the data from Hogdons website as well).
I have looked over a friends copy of the Lyman reloading book and it shows a max load of 4.3 grains for the same powder/ weight of bullet. So with the above numbers I am going to try adding .1 or .2 grains of powder and re-chrono and see how I come out before replacing the spring. If anyone else sees anything I am missing feel free to chime in.

I am also wondering if there is somethign going on between the polygonal barrel the HK uses and the plated bullets that may be causing some of the issue.

shootingbuff · May 10, 2012

My manual looks to be in-line with your results. It lists 4 gr from a 5" bbl doing 732. Plated should be a bit faster maybe but you are losing that if there was an increase more than not to the shorter bbl. Primers and crimp can make a difference as does each bbl. My manual isn't showing a COAL. You could just opt for a lighter recoil spring if you like that load. WST is a good alternative to Clays if you want to try a different powder. Not quite as soft but softer than most.

Let us know the outcome and good luck finding a happy solution.

aeropb · May 10, 2012

You should move to a lighter recoil spring.

shootingbuff · May 11, 2012

Glasses =good. The manual I referenced Hodgdon Basic 99 edition lists COAL at 1.200 with a Hornady FMJ FP. Different lots of powder can have a noticeable difference in vel and pressure as well.

As a side note I think that bullet is the sheez. I either load it or my cast. If you want a very good bullet and don't want to shoot cast and can handle the cost, that bullet is the one you want.

poopgiggle · May 11, 2012

Unless you're shooting 45 Minor you're going to want to bump that up a couple tenths. Minimum velocity for a 230gr bullet to make major is 718fps.

Your problem is probably that you're using LRN data. When I used to load Berry's bullets, they said to use low-to-mid range FMJ data.

Fake edit: Hrm, my Lyman manual doesn't show any data for Clays with 230gr FMJ bullets, and Hodgdon lists the max load as 4.0gr.

I guess either switch to a different powder or start working up and keep an eye out for pressure signs.

shootingbuff · May 11, 2012

There are a few that make major with Clays. Easier with WST and you stay within suggested load data.
Do this. Verify the scale is level and zeroed with absolutely no draft and the little wts are where they should be if using a mechanical scale. Also check your crimp.

Either of these can give you problems. Maybe you are only getting 3.9 grs vs the 4 or the crimp is so lose the round can not build up pressure.

Oh! - weigh the bullets and make sure they are 230s and not 200s or what-not.

Your options after that are:

Up the charge a .10th at a time and watch for pressure (not recommended)
Change recoil spring
Change powder

dfinan · May 11, 2012

Ok after doing some more reading, and looking at posts in this and a couple of other forums heres what I am going to try.

first I am going to adjust the crimp and increase it slightly, I am also going to adjust the oal I am going to go from 1.26 to 1.225. I plan on loading 10 up with just these changes and see what I get for velocity. I am also going to load up 10 with the above changes and 4.1 grains of clays and see how that works (I will make sure to check the brass from this bacth after shooting to make sure I dont see any signs of pressure issues).

I also am searching for a replacement recoil spring not having much luck. If anyone has a suggestions for a spring matching the following specs but at 16lbs instead of 18lbs let me know.

HK45 factory Recoil Spring 18lb
Flat Wire Spring Width- .07"
recoil spring length-4.84"
Outside Diameter-.4"
Inside Diameter-.25"
# Coils-27

Thanks for the advice and feel free to chime in with any other suggestions. If this doesnt work I have some WST I will try some loads with it has a slightly slower burn rate then Clays but its still pretty fast.

poopgiggle · May 11, 2012

Be careful with that OAL. IIRC the Hodgdon data with that OAL is for a flat-point bullet.

shootingbuff · May 11, 2012

poopgiggle said:
Be careful with that OAL. IIRC the Hodgdon data with that OAL is for a flat-point bullet.

That is correct as I stated above. Good bit of advice to heed and well worth repeating.

dfinan · May 13, 2012

Ok latest test came out much better. Kept the poweder charge the same went to a 1.22 OAL (I know this is a touch short gun chambered em fine) fps was much better. Recoil and muzzle flip was noticeably greater too. So the big two questions. F

irst the cases look ok no sign of over pressure that I can see, but I have heard one sign is that the primer will flow? Anyone have a sight they can point me to that shows what this looks like (I compared the brass to some of the lower powered rounds in the first test and could see no noticeable difference in the cases.

Second whats the best option to decrease the fps slightly, I am aiming for about 170,000 power factor this should keep me over major minimuim with enough wiggle room to allow for variance. Should I increase the OAL slightly or drop the amount of powder. I know either should get the job done, but whats the best way to do it and lighten up recoil/ muzzle flip?

4.0 Grains Clays 1.22 OAL 230 Grain Berrys Plated .452

Round # - FPS - PowerFactor
1 - 748 - 172040
2 - 752 - 172960
3 - 756 - 173880
4 - 754 - 173420
5 - 768 - 176640
6 - 746 - 171580
7 - 750 - 172500
8 - 766 - 176180
9 - 770 - 177100
10 - 754 - 173420

In any case thanks for all the advice, reloading my own ammo is pretty neat but I am starting to learn the reloading manuals are really just a starting point not the end all of what charge and powder to use at a given bullet weight.

dennishoddy · May 13, 2012

If your primers are flattened without rounded shoulders, that is a sign of over pressure. Compare it to a new factory round. It should look the same.

Spiff · May 13, 2012

I don't think .45 produces enough pressure to show primer signs. If the round feeds like it is, I'd drop the powder charge .1gr. Just be careful, because that length is pretty short.

FWIW, my 1911 likes 1.250 OAL.

poopgiggle · May 13, 2012

I've had primers flow before. The pressure is high enough that the primer will start to flow around the firing pin into the firing pin hole. Basically it looks like a donut shape on the primer instead of a dent.

This is all up to you, but if it WERE ME I would just load to about 170PF and then leave it. 45ACP is an old cartridge, and even if your load IS slightly high on pressure at 170PF (which I doubt), I imagine that a gun made with modern metals could handle it fine.

Scott Hearn · May 14, 2012

Factory 230 grain hardball runs about 192,000. Might be a tad less in your shorter barrel. You are fine.

And you PF looks to be right where you ought to be for gamer loads making major.

dfinan · May 16, 2012

Ok so heading to the range tonight and I am going to chrono the new batch these are loaded to 4.0 grains clays, and a 1.24 OAL. Going to split the difference on OAL (original were 1.26 and last set were 1.22) and see were the velocity stands, with any luck this will have me were I need to be and I will load up a batch for tomorrows IDPA match.

On the spring front Wolfes was a bust, I found a company in Katy, Texas that makes custom springs I am going to call them and see what kind of cost would be involved in manufacturing a new spring exactly like the factory spring but at a lower poundage, I will probably have them make a 12, 14 and 16lb spring depending on cost. it will probably be out of my price range but it wont hurt to ask.

On a related question to the spring and velocity, I know a lighter spring will help with the reduced power loads, will it have any effect on the velocity of the rounds? Just not sure on the physics behind that part of firing a round.

dfinan · May 16, 2012

Ok I think I have the loads nailed down at least from a chrono standpoint, going to make a batch for the match tomorrow and see how they do. Still need to work on the spring issue. Here are the latest loads
4.0 Grains Clays 1.24 OAL 230 Grain Berrys Plated .452
Round # - FPS - PowerFactor
1 - 732 - 168360
2 - 735 - 169050
3 - 756 - 173880
4 - 749 - 172270
5 - 736 - 169280
6 - 755 - 173650
7 - 737 - 169510
8 - 740 - 170200
9 - 737 - 169510
10 - 737 - 169510

poopgiggle · May 16, 2012

I think that you should prioritize reliability over recoil. If your reloads still aren't reliably cycling your gun you should address that before you start trying to skim power factor. I know that you won't have enough time to work up a load by the match tomorrow but it's something to consider.

If it gets to the point where you need to have springs custom made for your gun...I hate to be the guy that says "getaglock lol" but you might want to flip your HK45 and get a Glock (lol).

dfinan · May 16, 2012

I may end up getting a different .45 to shoot in limited 10, maybe a hi cap 1911 that is more customizable. Right now I have the HK so trying to figure out how to make it work (wont sell it I like the thing to much). I think I have the loads right at this point. The first set were just to weak, most didnt even make power factor, these all did so I am betting I will have no issues with the gun (crosses fingers).

shootingbuff · May 17, 2012

Maybe me and my powders but i like to go to COAL before powder as long as the round feeds 100 percent. Thing is adjust back and forth and you should find what you want.

As stated the gun has to run.

Making PF with a fast powder is safe as long as everything is right. Making PF as a factory round with med burn rate powder is easy and safer i.e less pressure. Going beyond the powders safe limits is not dependet on Vel/PF but on pressure.

Keep us informed of your progress it could help one of us knuckle draggers.

dfinan · May 17, 2012

Just back from the local IDPA match an I think I have figured out my loud gun ran fine no stovepipes or other malfunctions (other then mental). Dont even think I will need a new spring. Looks like 1.24 and 4.0 grains did the trick gun ran fine. got a couple more tuneup matchs between now and Doubletap match on June 8th. Glad to have the reloads figured out and chono'ed. To all who offered adive thanks.